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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.38%
A 161 21.67%
A- 100 13.46%
B+ 82 11.04%
B 58 7.81%
B- 27 3.63%
C+ 40 5.38%
C 38 5.11%
C- 24 3.23%
D+ 11 1.48%
D 13 1.75%
D- 10 1.35%
F 35 4.71%
Voters: 743. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 2 2013, 12:03 AM   #4456
Ln X
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post

STID is all about emotion, that takes precedent over everything else.
This is exactly why the movie is great. Humans acting like humans (this happened quite a bit in TOS).
STID cranks the emotion factor to 11, it was so strong I switched off because it was becoming drama for the sake of drama. The basis for all it is either weak, flimsy, overplayed or even non-existent. Yes it good to have emotion, but when it is so grotesquely taken out of context it loses a lot of impact.

I rarely go the cinema, and nearly all the films I watch are at least seven or more years old, I have to say that STID was the most OTT film I've seen in years. Maybe all films are like this now and because everyone watches them then they think STID is normal in that regard.

And the last thing I watched before STID was the Hobbit, and let me say the Hobbit had more or less the same emotional stakes and only once or twice did it become a little to over dramatic. STID is just incapable of subtly and this film (STID) would have been vastly better if it had toned down the emotions.
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Old July 2 2013, 12:06 AM   #4457
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post

And the last thing I watched before STID was the Hobbit, and let me say the Hobbit had the more or less the same emotional stakes and only once or twice did it become a little to over dramatic. STID is just incapable of subtly and this film would have been so vastly better if it had toned down the emotions.
That just simply comes down to a matter of personal preference. I enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness, during The Hobbit I was incredibly bored.
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Old July 2 2013, 12:11 AM   #4458
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
That just simply comes down to a matter of personal preference. I enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness, during The Hobbit I was incredibly bored.
It had to be the pacing and you were probably expecting LOTR?

Though you could never say STID was boring...
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Old July 2 2013, 12:25 AM   #4459
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post

It had to be the pacing and you were probably expecting LOTR?
Never was a Lord of the Rings fan, didn't enjoy the books I read and didn't enjoy the films. Middle Earth simply isn't my thing.

I think when we see movies, there is so much more to the experience than what we see on the screen. I'm sure that lots of people loved The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings (I know my wife did) but I didn't. Sometimes our associations are so strong for something because it reminds us of childhood (I think this applies to my wife for Middle Earth stuff, me for Star Trek) that we can look beyond the perceived flaws that others find because we've simply found a strong slice of nostalgia. Sometimes you go to something that you thought you wouldn't enjoy but do because the power of the company your with (went to World War Z with the wife and enjoyed it far more than I ever expected). Sometimes you enjoy something simply because you have a pretty girl on your arm.

Star Trek Into Darkness was an incredibly flawed film, but when I watch it I feel like I'm five again sitting in front of the 25" floor-model color TV we had. For that alone, I find it an incredibly compelling experience because not many things have that power. YMMV.
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Old July 2 2013, 12:34 AM   #4460
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Space drama was dramatic. Egads!
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Old July 2 2013, 12:38 AM   #4461
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Star Trek Into Darkness was an incredibly flawed film, but when I watch it I feel like I'm five again sitting in front of the 25" floor-model color TV we had. For that alone, I find it an incredibly compelling experience because not many things have that power. YMMV.
I can fully understand guilty pleasures, it's why I love ST Insurrection so much and why I feel Battlefield Earth is a decent film. I could have overlooked a rather dodgy plot if STID came with some juicy thoughtful and ponderous moments. Hell I like passion when it's combined with some great moral principles and a situation which ain't contrived. But I just think that after STID, we are not going to see scenes like this from Star Trek again for a long time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjYkuJb40J0

Or... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiJ_18Qib4A

That's what I've been pounding the table about. Those are two scenes which have emotional stakes far greater than STID, but they work so well because they never went overboard and all...
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Old July 2 2013, 12:50 AM   #4462
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post

That's what I've been pounding the table about. Those are two scenes which have emotional stakes far greater than STID, but they work so well because they never went overboard and all...
How is Picard not going completely overboard in that scene?

I think your grading Star Trek Into Darkness on a Modern Trek scale. The original show had big bombastic emotional characters. What we see on the screen fits perfectly with the Star Trek I grew up with.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:10 AM   #4463
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
STID cranks the emotion factor to 11
Which is why some of us had such a great time watching it! I wish "Nemesis" had had an emotion factor of 11. They killed off my favourite character and yet I shed not one tear.

I rarely go the cinema, and nearly all the films I watch are at least seven or more years old
Ah, so perhaps this film was not made with you in mind?

You are no longer part of the cinema-going public, but it looks like JJ was partly successful because you did venture out for this film!

If I hear about a movie that intrigues me, no way am I waiting seven years before picking it up on DVD.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:20 AM   #4464
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
How is Picard not going completely overboard in that scene?

I think your grading Star Trek Into Darkness on a Modern Trek scale. The original show had big bombastic emotional characters. What we see on the screen fits perfectly with the Star Trek I grew up with.
Picard does go overboard, he reaches this emotional climax but then finally realises what is happening to him. The scene's best bit is when he simmers down. Whereas in the nuTrek's style, Picard smashes that phaser against the display and then we cut to some action scene or climatic development. That would have been JJ Abram's approach, once an emotional climax has been reached let's hurtle to the next action scene or over-dramatic moment.

And yes I grew up with modern Trek, it's the only Star Trek I watch. I have seen bits and bobs of TOS and it is a product of its time. It was Star Trek in its infancy and a prototype in using a sci-fi drama to explore social issues, so we can forgive any such flaws or weird moments.

But the new Trek films are supposed to be about reinventing the franchise, acknowledging the original series whilst taking elements from TNG and DS9 (where Star Trek developed its maturity). The 2009 Star Trek film did this pretty well, but STID seems several steps backwards and if anything is a devolution into the Star Wars genre. I think Star Trek should stop worrying about being relevant and stop trying to compete with action blockbusters (it is not an action or science fantasy franchise!). If the story and the characters are great then Star Trek can still retain its identity and still be a little nerdy and ponderous.

If a movie like Inception can be made and make hundreds of millions in the box office, and Inception is as weird as they come and it taxes the audience's brain which STID sadly doesn't, then why should Star Trek have to come down to the low standards of today's films? Star Trek did not develop through avoiding risks; which is why VOY and ENT lead to the franchise's demise.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:28 AM   #4465
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post

But the new Trek films are supposed to be about reinventing the franchise, acknowledging the original series whilst taking elements from TNG and DS9 (where Star Trek developed its maturity).
I think you misunderstand the point of this reboot. Kirk and Spock are Star Trek. What exactly would be the point of bringing them back if you're simply turning them into Picard and Data?

I think you're taking what you wanted the movie to be and deciding that was the motive of making it. Nowhere do I remember them talking about taking elements from the other series other than as nods to those fans. I also love how a show that talked about revenge, rape and destruction of entire worlds somehow wasn't mature. It was every bit as mature as any of its offspring.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:28 AM   #4466
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

So.... you don't want it to make money...
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Old July 2 2013, 01:34 AM   #4467
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
STID cranks the emotion factor to 11
Which is why some of us had such a great time watching it! I wish "Nemesis" had had an emotion factor of 11. They killed off my favourite character and yet I shed not one tear.
Wow! That was one of those ocassions were a movie nearly did make me cry, I have never actually cried while watching a movie but when I watched Nemesis for the first time, I couldn't believe when they killed Data!


Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
I rarely go the cinema, and nearly all the films I watch are at least seven or more years old
Ah, so perhaps this film was not made with you in mind?

You are no longer part of the cinema-going public, but it looks like JJ was partly successful because you did venture out for this film!

If I hear about a movie that intrigues me, no way am I waiting seven years before picking it up on DVD.
I do not wait around seven years to pick up an intriguing movie for DVD. What I'm trying to say is that my DVD collection rarely contains movies which are rather new or recent. It's like a spectrum from the seventies all the way up to the mid 2000s.

Having read some reviews of STID before the movie (I've never been all that concerned with spoilers) I thought I knew what to expect. Everything was praising this movie and saying how better it was compared with the Star Trek 09 movie, so I thought I would be in for a real treat. When they said there was a great villain and much more moral complexities and stuff, I really did think that STID was a return to form of modern Trek albeit with a bit more pace, more action and more soapy moments.

The beginning made me feel right at home,but afterwards it just went downhill, the first half had some promise but it never really delivered and when STID started exhibiting the signs of what poor movies do: flaky plot, poor characterization, bad pacing, OTT drama, a lack of cinematography, plot points that go no where, and lastly cheap shots of flesh. I was left wondering what the critics and everyone else found so good about this movie. It's like the reverse of everyone trashing the film and to your surprise it's actually pretty good, with STID it was the reverse.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:40 AM   #4468
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
But the new Trek films are supposed to be about reinventing the franchise, acknowledging the original series whilst taking elements from TNG and DS9 (where Star Trek developed its maturity).
Who says that's what the new films are "supposed" to be? Maybe you supposed this, and if the films don't meet your exact supposition you are disappointed?

I thought they were supposed to simply be reviving the franchise from its awful Voyager/Nemesis/Enterprise popularity slump and to start the franchise making big bucks again. That is my supposition and the films have done that - and more!
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Old July 2 2013, 01:48 AM   #4469
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I think you misunderstand the point of this reboot. Kirk and Spock are Star Trek. What exactly would be the point of bringing them back if you're simply turning them into Picard and Data?

I think you're taking what you wanted the movie to be and deciding that was the motive of making it. Nowhere do I remember them talking about taking elements from the other series other than as nods to those fans. I also love how a show that talked about revenge, rape and destruction of entire worlds somehow wasn't mature. It was every bit as mature as any of its offspring.
I liked ST 09 and it had far more maturity and depth than STID had.


Opus wrote: View Post
So.... you don't want it to make money...
It would make half the money, but if you halved the budget then Paramount would still be getting the same proportion of returns from its investment. You half the budget by trimming down the special effects, being far more careful and measured with the action scenes and cutting down on a bloated advertisement and promotion budget.

But with JJ's approach, the next Star Trek movies will still make as much money as STID. But by that time the franchise will be all but unrecognisable, for me anyway STID sets a very ominous tone for future Star Trek movies. All I can say is this; it will become really obvious when (and if) the third movie arrives.

That's why I hope STID is the last Star Trek movie for some time, the franchise either needs to take a long breather of several years or it spawns a new series. The nuTrek characters just would not work in a series format, again it is pretty obvious why, so we would need a new setting and a new crew. But now it's about the money and new ST movies are the best way to milk this franchise.
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Old July 2 2013, 01:51 AM   #4470
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
But with JJ's approach, the next Star Trek movies will still make as much money as STID. But by that time the franchise will be all but unrecognisable, for me anyway STID sets a very ominous tone for future Star Trek movies. All I can say is this; it will become really obvious when (and if) the third movie arrives.
Star Trek Into Darkness looked and felt like Star Trek to me and I'm a fan of The Next Generation and Enterprise as well.

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