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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old July 1 2013, 02:42 PM   #286
Mr Awe
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

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Admittedly Colin Baker's era wasn't a high point, but there's no way that incoherently written, lazily directed, amateurishly acted piece of rubbish could be the best he got. Not when you had Robert Holmes contributing two and a half serials to CB's run. I definitely remember enjoying "The Two Doctors" a lot more than this.
YMMV, of course, but I still enjoyed Vengeance. I loved the setup for The Two Doctors, loads of potential. However, I thought it ended up being far too long and the story grew tedious as it went on.

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Old July 1 2013, 09:59 PM   #287
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

I felt disappointed with the Sil make-up design. No, I don't mean the "actor's body hidden within a box" approach, I'll give them credit for that. At least they made the box interesting by making it appear to be a tank filled with fluid. No, I mean the way they handled his face. It was just sad, absolutely no attempt to "blend" his features with the headpiece. It looked like one of those "cut-outs" one might see upon a carnival midway; you know, a facade of wood with painted images of cartoonish figures and holes where the faces would exist. You stick your face through the hole and get your photo taken. Past efforts by John Friedlander were far more effective. He's the person who sculpted the original Lynx and Davros masks. It would have been more effective to have hidden more of the face, leaving holes for the eyes and a space for the lower lip and maybe jaw. Greasepaint and strategically sculpted "wrinkles" in the rubber around the mouth gap would have created a more cohesive "whole". Plus, it would have allowed his features to be a tad more "alien".

If that character, or another of his species returned, that would be one design I certainly would not mind being altered and updated.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old July 1 2013, 10:12 PM   #288
Sindatur
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

Redfern wrote: View Post
I felt disappointed with the Sil make-up design. No, I don't mean the "actor's body hidden within a box" approach, I'll give them credit for that. At least they made the box interesting by making it appear to be a tank filled with fluid. No, I mean the way they handled his face. It was just sad, absolutely no attempt to "blend" his features with the headpiece. It looked like one of those "cut-outs" one might see upon a carnival midway; you know, a facade of wood with painted images of cartoonish figures and holes where the faces would exist. You stick your face through the hole and get your photo taken. Past efforts by John Friedlander were far more effective. He's the person who sculpted the original Lynx and Davros masks. It would have been more effective to have hidden more of the face, leaving holes for the eyes and a space for the lower lip and maybe jaw. Greasepaint and strategically sculpted "wrinkles" in the rubber around the mouth gap would have created a more cohesive "whole". Plus, it would have allowed his features to be a tad more "alien".

If that character, or another of his species returned, that would be one design I certainly would not mind being altered and updated.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old July 2 2013, 01:21 AM   #289
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

Redfern wrote: View Post
I felt disappointed with the Sil make-up design. No, I don't mean the "actor's body hidden within a box" approach, I'll give them credit for that. At least they made the box interesting by making it appear to be a tank filled with fluid.
I used to think that it was an illusion too, that the appearance of an open space between Sil's platform and the tank below was some elaborate mirror illusion. But in fact there was no trickery. The actor, Nabil Shaban, has osteogenesis imperfecta and apparently has only tiny, vestigial legs, which were inside the tail of the costume. Essentially Sil was designed around his unusual proportions.


No, I mean the way they handled his face. It was just sad, absolutely no attempt to "blend" his features with the headpiece.
True, that wasn't very successful.


If that character, or another of his species returned, that would be one design I certainly would not mind being altered and updated.
Sil returned the following season in "Mindwarp," also by Philip Martin. His makeup was, in fact, redesigned to blend his face in better, adding frills around it to hide the seam. They also changed his color from brown to green. We also saw another Mentor (Sil's species), played by the 5-foot-tall but otherwise normally proportioned Christopher Ryan, who's also played Sontarans in the revival series.
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Old July 2 2013, 02:12 PM   #290
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

Well, son of a gun! I had no idea about his medical condition and the "tail" actually hid the rest of his real body. You would think the production might have taken better advantage of that situation. As it appears, that tank looked like it was designed to hid e a body. One would think the prop cre could have made it more "open" to really drive home the point that's all there was to Sil's form. You think it was originally built with the intent to hide a normally proportioned actor, and afterwards they had the luck to hire Shaban?

Yes, I'll admit the second make-up design is far better blended around the face. Personally (and if the performer were willing), I would have applied some sort of "T" shape to make the nose and brow section a tad more "alien", sweeping the form into those frills, leaving his eyes, cheeks and lower face free to properly emote. But that's a "quibble".

Huh, all this time I just assumed it was a "body in a box" motif. Learn something new every day.

Sincerely,

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Old July 2 2013, 05:05 PM   #291
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

^There is a distinct gap between the platform Sil rests on and the water tank below. But you're right, the design of the tank did make me think it was just a very clever magician's illusion. I figure the raised platform was used to simplify the camera setups by putting Sil on the same level as the other actors' faces.
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Old July 2 2013, 06:46 PM   #292
diankra
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

You can see most clearly that there's no illusion involved late on in his second story, when an emergency breaks out, and Sil's bodyguard picks him up bodily to carry him out of danger.
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Old July 3 2013, 01:32 AM   #293
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

The Thoros-Betans were made in the vein as the Ferengi would be a couple of years later and Nabil Shaban was perfect in the role of Sil. And I didn't think Vengeance was that good, but it is symbolic of Colin Baker's era. However I love Mindwarp.
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Old July 5 2013, 11:43 PM   #294
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

The makeup for Sil wasn't the best--but Nicola Bryant to me is one of the cutest companions.
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Old July 6 2013, 12:13 AM   #295
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

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...but Nicola Bryant to me is one of the cutest companions.
She was definitely hot as hell -- and the fact that she first entered the TARDIS in a bikini certainly made her unforgettable -- but in her first season-plus I found her personality and voice a bit grating, and watching "Varos" again last week I was rather unimpressed by her acting. I remember her being better in "The Mysterious Planet" and "Mindwarp."
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Old July 6 2013, 12:49 AM   #296
diankra
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

Christopher wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
...but Nicola Bryant to me is one of the cutest companions.
She was definitely hot as hell -- and the fact that she first entered the TARDIS in a bikini certainly made her unforgettable -- but in her first season-plus I found her personality and voice a bit grating, and watching "Varos" again last week I was rather unimpressed by her acting. I remember her being better in "The Mysterious Planet" and "Mindwarp."
Just to irritate you... she's now in a very settled relationship with Nev Fountain, a comedy writer (dead Ringers, Private Eye), Big Finish writer... and a fan!
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Old July 6 2013, 01:20 AM   #297
Christopher
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

^Doesn't irritate me at all. There's a difference between finding a television performer nice to look at and deluding oneself that there's a nonzero chance of a relationship with them.

Besides, sometimes there are people that you find very pleasant to look at but whose personalities do not predispose you to want a relationship with them. Peri in her first season or so was like that -- hot, but whiny and annoying. She did get better in her final season, though, as I said.
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Old July 6 2013, 02:22 AM   #298
Redfern
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

And she aged very gracefully as her appearances in the last two BBCA DW retrospectives can attest.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old July 6 2013, 02:24 AM   #299
DWF
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

diankra wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
...but Nicola Bryant to me is one of the cutest companions.
She was definitely hot as hell -- and the fact that she first entered the TARDIS in a bikini certainly made her unforgettable -- but in her first season-plus I found her personality and voice a bit grating, and watching "Varos" again last week I was rather unimpressed by her acting. I remember her being better in "The Mysterious Planet" and "Mindwarp."
Just to irritate you... she's now in a very settled relationship with Nev Fountain, a comedy writer (dead Ringers, Private Eye), Big Finish writer... and a fan!
Yeah for however long that'll last, she can't seem to be a relationship for very long.
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Old July 9 2013, 09:47 PM   #300
publiusr
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Re: Classic Who on BBC America

Lalla Ward seems happy with Richard Dawkins, so who know. Maybe crochety old guys have a chance
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