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Old July 1 2013, 02:08 AM   #31
Queen Arachnia
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

SchwEnt wrote: View Post

She's gotta fix it for Seven and Chatokay, but not for Carey and Hogan and Stadi?
Duuuude...Don't you know those other 140 crewman have no meaning!?!?! Come on now. Anyone who watches Voyager knows this! I'm kidding.

Also I think Teacake would totally go back in time and sacrifice herself to save Seven. :P
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Old July 1 2013, 02:15 AM   #32
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Maybe when I'm old as the Admiral I might do that, but first I'd have to spend a few decades tormented over never getting either Chakotay OR 7 into my bed. That is total fail. Talk about regrets. Seriously, if any of you have regrets like this about people in your life you abstained from because of a higher road you felt compelled to take you should totally try and fix it now before you have to take down Klingons to do so.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:37 AM   #33
Queen Arachnia
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

teacake wrote: View Post
Maybe when I'm old as the Admiral I might do that, but first I'd have to spend a few decades tormented over never getting either Chakotay OR 7 into my bed. That is total fail. Talk about regrets. Seriously, if any of you have regrets like this about people in your life you abstained from because of a higher road you felt compelled to take you should totally try and fix it now before you have to take down Klingons to do so.
Yeaa...

My very first experience with Trek was watching Voyager for the first time and I remember facepalming at the end of "Resolutions" because Janeway didn't get with Chakotay haha. The whole episode in the beginning and middle seemed like they were going to do it and they don't. ARGGG.

Also HARRY.

SEVEN: Are you in love with me, Ensign?
KIM: Well, no.
SEVEN: Then you wish to copulate?
KIM: No! I mean, I, I don't know what I mean.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:43 AM   #34
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
Also HARRY.

SEVEN: Are you in love with me, Ensign?
KIM: Well, no.
SEVEN: Then you wish to copulate?
KIM: No! I mean, I, I don't know what I mean.
I remember that scene clearly the first time I watched it. I was a hormone filled teenager who was trying to strangle the TV all while shouting to it what an idiot Harry Kim was.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:53 AM   #35
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

R. Star wrote: View Post
Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
Also HARRY.

SEVEN: Are you in love with me, Ensign?
KIM: Well, no.
SEVEN: Then you wish to copulate?
KIM: No! I mean, I, I don't know what I mean.
I remember that scene clearly the first time I watched it. I was a hormone filled teenager who was trying to strangle the TV all while shouting to it what an idiot Harry Kim was.
So many good lines from that episode.

KIM: Ensign Kim personal log, stardate 51186.2. Working with Seven of Nine is starting to get a little awkward. Tom's right. Anything more than friendship is a bad idea. But I can't stop thinking about her.

PARIS: If you'll excuse me, I have to go check on Harry. I hear he's having a nervous breakdown. It's a long story.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:54 AM   #36
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Endgame is an amazing episode, it somehow managed to take EVERYTHING that was wrong with VOY and cram it into 2 hrs. The only thing Endgame has going for it is that its not as bad as TATV.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:56 AM   #37
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post

So many good lines from that episode.

KIM: Ensign Kim personal log, stardate 51186.2. Working with Seven of Nine is starting to get a little awkward. Tom's right. Anything more than friendship is a bad idea. But I can't stop thinking about her.

PARIS: If you'll excuse me, I have to go check on Harry. I hear he's having a nervous breakdown. It's a long story.

Harry's pin up girl just came to life and now he can't cope.. and meanwhile there is probably some chatty little ensign who keeps trying to get his attention that he barely notices because she's too available and not doesn't give him that unattainable high.
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Old July 1 2013, 04:49 AM   #38
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

R. Star wrote: View Post
If you're asking for opinions, I can offer one.
Noted. Sorry, I haven't been on the bbs while the thread while this thread took on a life of its own. These are minor flaws (at least to me) R Star. Its like "All Good Things" with its problem of the anomaly-growing-backward-in-time error, but the STORY is still good. The plot is what I enjoy about endgame. I don't focus much on the details. I do have a few issues with the episode (for instance, if the borg posses a wormhole leading to 001, why hasn't earth been handily assimilated?) But I loved the plot. If you can't suspend your disbelief once in a while, it becomes impossible to enjoy Trek.
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Old July 1 2013, 05:01 AM   #39
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

I can't love a plot that involves the notion that the crew of one little ship is more important than the lives of everyone they touched for another X years.

Or are we supposed to believe that during the additional years Voyager spent getting home they did absolutely nothing of consequence?
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Old July 1 2013, 05:12 AM   #40
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

All those fictional people we never heard of? Nope, not bothered.
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Old July 1 2013, 05:18 AM   #41
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
She's gotta fix it for Seven and Chatokay, but not for Carey and Hogan and Stadi?
How can you dislike an episode you didn't watch? The Admiral can only intervene to get the ship home at a point in the journey when there is a way back. Carey and Hogan weren't anywhere near such a place and could not be saved. Stadi was near the Array but there's no reason to think there was any way the Admiral could find a way home there. Preventing Voyager from going to the Badlands (never leaving) might not have worked to save just the Voyager crew, nor would it have saved Chakotay, Tuvok, Torres, Kes and Seven of Nine.

Bad enough Janeway does this--even after the ship and crew DID get home anyway--but VOY already did eps with the villain Annorax altering time and history for the sake of his personal outcome.

So Janeway does the SAME THING as a big heroic finish for the series?

NOT awesome.
The Admiral's plan was rejected. The Captain didn't change the past, she changed the future. If somehow you've convinced yourself people don't have the right to change their futures (,) the Captain did it to defeat the Borg, which is not a personal outcome. You shouldn't have taken so long making the popcorn, you missed that part.
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Old July 1 2013, 07:38 AM   #42
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

It doesn't matter -why- the Captain did it, the point is she placed the lives of her crew over the lives of everyone Voyager may have positively influenced in the prior timeline.

And the idea that the lives of the Voyager crew are more important than the lives of "fictional people we never heard of" is ludicrous.

It would serve them right if the Borg ended up conquering the AQ precisely because things Voyager had done to slow them down never transpired.
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Old July 1 2013, 07:41 AM   #43
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
but the STORY is still good.
Absolutely! It's a ripping yarn. Like all ripping yarns too much scrutiny reveals some gaps.
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Old July 1 2013, 08:00 AM   #44
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

The Voyager crew is fictional, too. After seven years, I care more about them than fictional folks unseen and unknown. And wishing Borg assimilation on a quadrant over this, that's a sadly angry reaction, Don.
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Old July 1 2013, 02:52 PM   #45
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Re: Endgame was awesome!

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
If you're asking for opinions, I can offer one.
Noted. Sorry, I haven't been on the bbs while the thread while this thread took on a life of its own. These are minor flaws (at least to me) R Star. Its like "All Good Things" with its problem of the anomaly-growing-backward-in-time error, but the STORY is still good. The plot is what I enjoy about endgame. I don't focus much on the details. I do have a few issues with the episode (for instance, if the borg posses a wormhole leading to 001, why hasn't earth been handily assimilated?) But I loved the plot. If you can't suspend your disbelief once in a while, it becomes impossible to enjoy Trek.
Shows esp. Sci-Fi shows to require a suspesnion of disbelief. We accept Warp Drives, Transporters etc.. as being needed to tell the story. However the producers have to be careful not to push that to far or they risk breaking that suspension.
Of course where that breaking point is might differ from person to person.

The plot is what many people dislike about "Endgame".

As has already been pointed out, they previoulsy refused an offer to prevent the ship from being launched on the misson in the first place because of the impact they had , had in the DQ. Flash forward a few years later and so what about the influence we might have had in the next 16 years just so we can save the lives of effectively three crew members Seven, Tuvok and Chakotay.
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