RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,357
Posts: 5,355,411
Members: 24,625
Currently online: 514
Newest member: Saracuda

TrekToday headlines

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 30 2013, 03:11 AM   #16
Saturn0660
Rear Admiral
 
Saturn0660's Avatar
 
Location: NE Ohio
View Saturn0660's Twitter Profile
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

I'm still trying to figure out the Asian thing?
__________________
How many lights do YOU see?
Saturn0660 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 03:59 AM   #17
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Next best thing to Godwin? Maybe, the opening post was edited later? What the hell is Asian culture?
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 04:10 AM   #18
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Well you can easily argue that there are extreme differences between China and Japan, but India is also rocking out in Asia, which means that you then have the opportunity to easily argue that there are extreme differences between India and Pakistan.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; June 30 2013 at 08:31 AM.
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 08:06 AM   #19
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Tuvok is a great character, definitely one of my all-time Star Trek favorites.

A bit stiff and rigid sometimes but I find that a part of his charm, besides that, he's a great contrast and complement to Janeway and Chakotay in that matter.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 08:16 AM   #20
Triskelion
Rear Admiral
 
Triskelion's Avatar
 
Location: \,,/. ▷\✦_✦ L L + P
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Culture and race are not synonymous, except of course to those cultures that make them synonymous.

Who made race a major factor in a society in the first place?

Must be nice to have it both ways: racism and rationalism, to play either card when it's convenient. To enjoy both racial majority discrimination as well as indiscriminate tolerance.

"My country is not racist. We only have one race." I have heard this many, many times, from sincere people who feel above accountability when it comes to discrimination against their own minorities. They swallow the self-serving narrative hook, line and sinker.

Convenient. There is such a thing, though, as making cultural observations, but how do you do that with a race-based society without being accused of the same racial bias the society clearly embraces?

Racial factors are "implicit", for some ab initio reason.


Projecting "egalitarian rationalism" on societies with deeply-rooted racial histories somehow misses the mark, I think. Not every culture shares enlightened racial egalitarian values - whether they invoke them when convenient and discard them equally conveniently. May I say, people in such societies may not even want the well-meaning liberal defense. You see - "they" identify with race. "They" value racial bias. Wrap your brain around that!

If you want to point out racism, travel around the world and enjoy your new full time job!

Not defending the OP. Just clarifying that rational tolerance and egalitarianism are not values embraced as often as they are invoked. Sorry if I also find it hypocritical to enjoy rational, egalitarian tolerance for a clearly racially-biased society that may or may not be moving toward rational egalitarianism in deed to go with the word.

Also, I understand what the OP was getting at. Problem solving is one factor of cultural differences among many. Nothing to do with race, and everything to do with cultural heritage. Not synonymous except to those who cannot or do not make such distinctions. Assuming all cultures have about the same values is a worse kind of racism, because it claims to be rational but it is bias.

Liberal idealism fails to recognize the actual tolerance for cultural differences - and there are differences - because it assumes its own value system is "optimal" and "universally valued." "We tolerate all races and creeds at our democratic convention, except those damned religious regional idiots." Prejudice in its rawest form. Only the adjectives have changed. "My way is the best way" is still the narrative? The creed to be evangelized? No tolerance of difference? No understanding of cultural nuance?

Cultural relativism can tolerate almost anything - children working in brick factories, whole swathes of population being decimated by an economic majority, rampant environmental destruction, ad nauseum.

To not realize the influence of western culture on rationalism is to not appreciate your own cultural heritage. Reverse racism and equally offensive. But forgivable, because it's usually the product of a lack of worldly experience.

Still - caution everyone all the time about every possible evil. That kind of heroism is always needed and never smugly self-deluding. Lecture a firefighter about the evils of fire. She'll thank you for it. (And obviously, she must be some kind of a pyro, right)?

"Parrothead."
Is what I would call myself.
Triskelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 09:34 AM   #21
Defiant Obrien
Lieutenant
 
Location: Seattle
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Next best thing to Godwin? Maybe, the opening post was edited later? What the hell is Asian culture?
If you have to ask, dont even worry about it. That reference will only make sense to someone from say Kentucky who lives for a year in san francisco
Defiant Obrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 09:40 AM   #22
Defiant Obrien
Lieutenant
 
Location: Seattle
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Well you can easily argue that there are extreme differences between China and Japan, but India is also rocking out in Asia, which means that you then have the opportunity to easily argue that there are extreme differences between India and Pakistan.
Ok Mate, this is semantics. When i say "asian" the average response is to think "oriental" not indian.. conversely if i were to say "That indian kid" you'd think Sikhs/Desi /"owns all the gas stations and 2 star hotels in the midwest" .. when i say arabs" .. you think "crude oil" and camels


My point is not to make a big deal out of the splitting of hairs. I suppose I am the idiot for thinking i can safely make such an offhand inference without getting a shite storm send down upon me in this day and age..
Defiant Obrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 09:59 AM   #23
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Defiant Obrien wrote: View Post
Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Next best thing to Godwin? Maybe, the opening post was edited later? What the hell is Asian culture?
If you have to ask, dont even worry about it. That reference will only make sense to someone from say Kentucky who lives for a year in san francisco
Does that include dog stew?
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 10:04 AM   #24
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Triskelion wrote: View Post
Still - caution everyone all the time about every possible evil. That kind of heroism is always needed and never smugly self-deluding. Lecture a firefighter about the evils of fire. She'll thank you for it. (And obviously, she must be some kind of a pyro, right)?
I TOTALLY AGREE.

Tuvok just wanted to see stuff burn. You can say he was an idiot to throw Kes's kero soaked brain onto that little candle but he got what he wanted in the end didn't he?
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 10:05 AM   #25
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

There's a continent called Asia where India, Pakistan, Sir Lanka, Bangladesh and 43 other countries are sitting squarely on it.

It's called Science.

But yes, I too was very confused when I first noticed brown people answering to to the word "Asian" in popular media and current affairs, but then I learnt to roll with it.

Here's a trick that might save you from a beating someday... "New words" are more often less racist than "old words". If you keep learning new words, the worst they can call you is a neoracist.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 07:52 PM   #26
Defiant Obrien
Lieutenant
 
Location: Seattle
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
There's a continent called Asia where India, Pakistan, Sir Lanka, Bangladesh and 43 other countries are sitting squarely on it.

It's called Science.

But yes, I too was very confused when I first noticed brown people answering to to the word "Asian" in popular media and current affairs, but then I learnt to roll with it.

Here's a trick that might save you from a beating someday... "New words" are more often less racist than "old words". If you keep learning new words, the worst they can call you is a neoracist.
Im brown and dont consider myself asian... Maybe we need a new classification.. "Caustic Brown"?
Defiant Obrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 11:39 PM   #27
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Asia is a continent, not a culture or colour.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2013, 12:07 AM   #28
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

The people living on it, and their descendants who walked the Earth have the option for feeling a little communion.

Asia is also a shitty band.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2013, 12:37 AM   #29
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

Defiant Obrien wrote: View Post
I suppose I am the idiot for thinking i can safely make such an offhand inference without getting a shite storm send down upon me in this day and age..
You mean "implication." "Inference" is what the rest of us draw from your implication. I thought we did this already?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It's called Science.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I've always called it "Geography."

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Asia is also a shitty band.
Compared to ... what? Your million selling band with members from other million selling bands?
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2013, 12:41 AM   #30
Captain Kathryn
Commodore
 
Captain Kathryn's Avatar
 
Location: In Star Trek / Doctor Who fantasy land aka New Jersey
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Captain Kathryn
Re: Tuvok is an Idiot

What is with the Asian thing??? Did the OP write something disparaging about Asian culture in another thread or something?!?

In terms of Tuvok, he most certainly is not an idiot and is one of my favorite Vulcan characters. Vulcans are my favorite Trek species to watch period and I think Tuvok was definitely "Vulcan" enough.

This thread title is pretty offensive too. Idiot is a strong word.
__________________
Assimilate more Janeway...among other stuff! Captain Kathryn's Tumblr
Captain Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.