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Old June 13 2013, 12:53 AM   #1651
DalekJim
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Kegg wrote: View Post
It's one of the two stories in A Clash of Kings that is clearly suffering from Martin's desire to expand the length of the novel series. The other one is Arya's.
I think Arya has the best chapters in that book, loved all of them. Only Dany's chapters felt kinda unnecessary but she only had a few so it didn't bother me much.
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Old June 13 2013, 01:39 AM   #1652
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Kegg wrote: View Post
It's one of the two stories in A Clash of Kings that is clearly suffering from Martin's desire to expand the length of the novel series. The other one is Arya's.
Arya's chapters in ACOK were important because it introduced Jaqen H'ghar and Faceless Men.
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Old June 13 2013, 03:18 AM   #1653
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

^
Important, sure, but Arya's chapters also had plenty of traveloguing in that book, where it was her and her friends faffing around from location A to location B. As a rule travelogues are the weakest kind of chapter in ASOIAF.
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Old June 28 2013, 10:17 PM   #1654
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Pedro Pascal has been cast as the Red Viper, who will be making his debut in season four.
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Old June 28 2013, 10:58 PM   #1655
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Kegg wrote: View Post
It's one of the two stories in A Clash of Kings that is clearly suffering from Martin's desire to expand the length of the novel series. The other one is Arya's.
I think Arya has the best chapters in that book, loved all of them. Only Dany's chapters felt kinda unnecessary but she only had a few so it didn't bother me much.
Arya's Clash chapters are great. The show did not translate them very well though.
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Old June 29 2013, 08:25 AM   #1656
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
Pedro Pascal has been cast as the Red Viper, who will be making his debut in season four.
Looks about right. Sad that Oberyn will be a one-season wonder though. Probably only see him in 3 or 4 episodes and his death won't have nearly the impact as if he were around this season.

That is going to be an increasing problem as the series continues. Unless you start introducing these characters and giving them proper development early on, the deaths are just going to start seeming routine. "Oh, look at the guest star this season who will obviously die in episode 9"
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Old June 29 2013, 08:53 AM   #1657
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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Looks about right. Sad that Oberyn will be a one-season wonder though. Probably only see him in 3 or 4 episodes and his death won't have nearly the impact as if he were around this season.

That is going to be an increasing problem as the series continues. Unless you start introducing these characters and giving them proper development early on, the deaths are just going to start seeming routine. "Oh, look at the guest star this season who will obviously die in episode 9"
It's one of the disadvantages of the show, not being able to go in depth like the books, but I like the Season 4 will be having its own flavor with the new characters from Dorne. The Oberyn vs the Mountain fight should be epic.
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Old June 29 2013, 12:10 PM   #1658
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

In depth would be nice, but what I'm talking about is laying groundwork. Cersei hasn't been fucking around, so that plot is going to have to start next season too and somehow make sense with Jaime already home, Lancel hasn't been around since the first season so he gets thrown out. We haven't met the Kettleblacks nor really seen much of Littlefinger or his intricate plots. Pretty much the whole next season is going to have to be just the goings-on in Kings Landing (and the various plots of the characters who call it home) to do any of it justice and get anywhere near the point of pushing into the AFFC material, and we haven't even met most of the Ironborn cast yet.

This is why wasting screen time on torture scenes and invented subplots is so frustrating. The writers seem to want to leave a mark on the story by adding to it when they should instead be focusing on adapting as prudently, efficiently and effectively as possible.
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Old June 29 2013, 04:23 PM   #1659
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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In depth would be nice, but what I'm talking about is laying groundwork. Cersei hasn't been fucking around, so that plot is going to have to start next season too and somehow make sense with Jaime already home,
She's been fucking Lancel since season one. That alone should be enough for Jaime.
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Old June 29 2013, 05:22 PM   #1660
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Lancel hasn't been around since the first season so he gets thrown out.
He appeared 3-4 times in season 2.
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Old June 29 2013, 06:30 PM   #1661
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Looks about right. Sad that Oberyn will be a one-season wonder though. Probably only see him in 3 or 4 episodes and his death won't have nearly the impact as if he were around this season.
Oberyn doesn't really do much until The Duel so it isn't a big deal. I just hope they do the fight justice. The most intense chapter in the entire series. I nearly had a panic attack reading it, I was so damn excited .

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This is why wasting screen time on torture scenes and invented subplots is so frustrating.
I really like the show but I agree the invented subplots are infuriating. It wasn't really a problem in Season 1, hell the added Littlefinger and Varys scenes were fucking awesome. Come Season 2 and 3 though, we have seemingly endless invented scenes in King's Landing.

I'm rewatching the show now and the showrunners have a serious boner for Margaery Tyrell. An incredibly minor character in Books 2 and 3, yet is given an abundance of new scenes for the show which add absolutely fucking nothing and go over the same material. Worse, it's at the expense of important stuff that could be done with Stannis, Jon and Arya's plots, which always suffer from being rushed. We saw Maester Cressen, one of the most tragic characters in all of ASOIAF, be demoted in to to being a faceless extra... in favour of excruciating padding regarding the fucking Tyrells.

At this point it's clear to me the showrunners only really care about King's Landing. All the plots outside of it get fucked with and have scenes trimmed all the time, while King's Landing always gets added scenes.

The show cut Arya and Jon warging in to their wolves, yet gave us Pod being the master of fucking whores, and dead-end subplots with Ros. A character that isn't even in A Song of Ice and Fire.

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Arya's Clash chapters are great. The show did not translate them very well though.
Jaqen was awesomely cast, but the plot was kinda butchered. Having Arya order The Tickler killed in Season 2 was one of the more retarded changes the show has given us. Arya killing him in A Storm of Swords is one of her key character moments.

This adaptation is so schizophrenic. There are times when the showrunners go to excessive, beyond the call of duty effort to maintain the spirit of the books. And then there are other times where they make me wonder if they've even read them. Not having Arya and Jon warg is just... what? Why the fuck would anybody ever cut that? Even the dumb mass audience that would never dream of touching a book, who purely tune in for the blood and tits, would rather see Jon and Arya warg in to direwolves than added scenes like uh... Loras shaving Renly? Loras going on about how hyped he is for his dream wedding? Excruciatingly long scenes of the Queen of Thorn mentioning farts? Margaery openly wearing her motivations on her sleave?

Seriously, fuck the Tyrells and fuck the showrunners' obsession with them. That screentime should have been given to setting up the Boltons properly. None of my casual viewing friends had any idea who Roose Bolton was pre-Red Wedding. That is a huge fuck-up. But the showrunners don't give a flying fuck about setting up characters in the North, Iron Islands, Beyond the Wall, Dragonstone, or any other non-King's Landing area. If Roose Bolton lived in King's Landing, he'd likely have had 16 hours worth of screentime before the Red Wedding.

Rant over, before I head on to how much they've raped the character of Mance Rayder.

Last edited by DalekJim; June 29 2013 at 07:01 PM.
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Old June 29 2013, 07:28 PM   #1662
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I liked the Ros character and wished she stuck around. I thought it was good to see a prostitute's perspective which lessened some of the ickiness of the brothel scenes where it began to feel gratuitous.
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Old June 29 2013, 07:51 PM   #1663
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

She was a cynical excuse for more shots of tits, and nothing more. A staggering literary feat, reduced to Nuts magazine status. Thank you HBO.
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Old June 30 2013, 08:43 AM   #1664
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I think they spent more time developing the Tyrells because the Tyrells stick around more, and frankly they DO play a major part in the series. In the books they're mostly a bunch of Ciphers, and that wouldn't work for the show.

They didn't do anything to "set up" the Boltons more because they wanted to keep it a surprise that they'd turn traitor. It's also why they changed Roose's appearance from the books which would've been like him wearing a "Yeah, I'm evil" sign on him.

As for the lack of warging for Arya and Jon, we already saw warging in Jon's story it just wasn't from him so we know the concept (which is also being shown with Bran). Arya's warging will be saved for season 4 for when she uses Nymeria to do...you know what. It'll be more dramatic that way.

And honestly, there wasn't THAT much time wasted on Ros or Podrick. Folks need to get over how there are some new characters.

PS: I like how they made Cersei and Tywin more 3-Dimensional, compared to the 1-D caricatures they are in the books (which would've been a waste of Lena Headey and Charles Dance).
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Old June 30 2013, 09:25 PM   #1665
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ayelbourne wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
In depth would be nice, but what I'm talking about is laying groundwork. Cersei hasn't been fucking around, so that plot is going to have to start next season too and somehow make sense with Jaime already home,
She's been fucking Lancel since season one. That alone should be enough for Jaime.
Yes, but it hasn't been a recent thing, and now that Jaime is back she won't have any use for him. I can't see her picking up a plethora of lovers with him around and that is kind of a key issue in her plot. Jaime's reaction to it is almost irrelevant next to the importance of her thinking she has turned herself into a master of intrigue through the use of her vagina. Bringing him back early also is going to mean having to invent stuff for him to do for the first two-thirds of the season.
CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
Lancel hasn't been around since the first season so he gets thrown out.
He appeared 3-4 times in season 2.
My mistake, I barely remember him. I find it very unlikely that Cersei would have any interest in the TV version of Lancel, since his appeal is supposed to be in looking like a young Jaime and the timid little fella they cast bears no resemblance. I also can't see him replacing the Kettleblacks in the plot.
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
Looks about right. Sad that Oberyn will be a one-season wonder though. Probably only see him in 3 or 4 episodes and his death won't have nearly the impact as if he were around this season.
Oberyn doesn't really do much until The Duel so it isn't a big deal. I just hope they do the fight justice. The most intense chapter in the entire series. I nearly had a panic attack reading it, I was so damn excited .
I understand he isn't a major plot factor early on, but his presence gives his character credibility rather than appearing and dying within the span of a handful of episodes. He is going to have to hit the ground running to build up any sort of impact from his death.
Venardhi wrote: View Post
This is why wasting screen time on torture scenes and invented subplots is so frustrating.
I really like the show but I agree the invented subplots are infuriating. It wasn't really a problem in Season 1, hell the added Littlefinger and Varys scenes were fucking awesome. Come Season 2 and 3 though, we have seemingly endless invented scenes in King's Landing.

I'm rewatching the show now and the showrunners have a serious boner for Margaery Tyrell. An incredibly minor character in Books 2 and 3, yet is given an abundance of new scenes for the show which add absolutely fucking nothing and go over the same material. Worse, it's at the expense of important stuff that could be done with Stannis, Jon and Arya's plots, which always suffer from being rushed. We saw Maester Cressen, one of the most tragic characters in all of ASOIAF, be demoted in to to being a faceless extra... in favour of excruciating padding regarding the fucking Tyrells.

At this point it's clear to me the showrunners only really care about King's Landing. All the plots outside of it get fucked with and have scenes trimmed all the time, while King's Landing always gets added scenes.

The show cut Arya and Jon warging in to their wolves, yet gave us Pod being the master of fucking whores, and dead-end subplots with Ros. A character that isn't even in A Song of Ice and Fire.
...
Rant over, before I head on to how much they've raped the character of Mance Rayder.
Agreed on all counts. Jon's warging isn't only important to the character but possibly also a key to his plot if it is how he avoids the imminent death we saw in ADWD.
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