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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 26 2013, 10:14 PM   #4396
Shazam!
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Damn
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Old June 26 2013, 10:23 PM   #4397
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Orci also seems to be revealing the movie was more of a George W Bush/Cheney parable than is generally supposed. I thought of Admiral Marcus immediately as a Cheney character...paranoid, militaristic, pre-emptively violent and with power... Secretly starts an unjust war (Klingons may be militaristic, but there was no hint their decimated planet would allow them to attack anyone in the near future).

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Old June 27 2013, 03:12 PM   #4398
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

One of the issues people had with this movie was that "exploration" was missing. I saw on demand the movie "Europa Report", which is about exploration. It's a good movie, and, for me, proves that exploration can be entertaining and intense.
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Old June 27 2013, 07:57 PM   #4399
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Does a 50th anniversary story imply "all encompassing?" If so, does such a story require the presence of JLP? If so, is it possible to have JLP without the Borg?

I've mentioned this a few times, but may as well throw it out there again for the hell of it:

This Means War was a pretty awful film. But Hardy and Pine's bro chemistry was fantastic, the film's only real redeeming value. I've also heard/read reports that the two have since become really good mates.
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Old June 27 2013, 09:33 PM   #4400
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
One of the issues people had with this movie was that "exploration" was missing. I saw on demand the movie "Europa Report", which is about exploration. It's a good movie, and, for me, proves that exploration can be entertaining and intense.
You could pick up the script for Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World and transpose it to the 22nd, 23rd or 24th "Star Trek" series. A wonderful, exciting, entertaining exploration movie.
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Old June 27 2013, 10:32 PM   #4401
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

That was a great film.
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Old June 28 2013, 01:04 AM   #4402
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

If we're still talking about Into Darkness, I'd like to share my opinion.

As a sequel to the 09 reboot movie, I thought it was very good. Compared to the six episodes of the Original Series I thought there was no comparison. Let me tell you why:

- the reboots are literally an AU world. Kirk doesn't have a Dad to raise him, Spock is a bit more emotional, and there's less 'exploring'.
- they are from different time periods
- Benedict Cumberbatch. I am a proud fangirl and his appearance left me in tears

That's why I value both the reboots and original material. Hope this is okay to have posted here
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Old June 28 2013, 11:34 PM   #4403
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I am okay with the depiction of a galaxy at war, which is what is being built in these films. The original series implied that the 2240s and 2250s were, also, a time when the galaxy was at war.

I am less okay with the depiction of James Kirk. I am still struggling with believing him to be a competent captain, much less a captain who has earned the right to be the master of the Federation flagship. The TOS Kirk earned his promotion to master of the Enterprise after proving himself as the captain of a lesser ship.
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Old June 28 2013, 11:59 PM   #4404
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
The TOS Kirk earned his promotion to master of the Enterprise after proving himself as the captain of a lesser ship.
Source? Because nowhere in the TOS episodes or movies is such a command mentioned. And yes I know about Dehner's line from Where No Man... and find it vague at best because the Enterprise could have been the command she mentions.
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Old June 29 2013, 02:44 AM   #4405
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
The Abramsverse is simply playing "what if?" What if Spock's homeworld is destroyed and mother killed? How does that effect a race that is dedicated to logic but has volatile emotions lurking just under the surface?

The Abrams team have done a fine job of it and seem to understand Vulcans in general, and Spock in particular, far better than many "fans".
Rather be a "fan" than a sycophant for Abrams and co.
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Old June 29 2013, 02:59 AM   #4406
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

And that will be enough of references to "fans" and sycophants, thank you.

Everyone here is a fan, and we ought to be able to differ in opinion without taking things personally and without making things personal. If that cannot be managed, then perhaps better to refrain from saying anything at all.
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Old June 29 2013, 03:41 AM   #4407
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
throwback wrote: View Post
The TOS Kirk earned his promotion to master of the Enterprise after proving himself as the captain of a lesser ship.
Source? Because nowhere in the TOS episodes or movies is such a command mentioned. And yes I know about Dehner's line from Where No Man... and find it vague at best because the Enterprise could have been the command she mentions.
In fact that was most likely the intent of the line, explaining how Kirk happens to have his best friend under his command on the Enterprise. So the pilot pretty much establishes the Enterprise as his first command.
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Old June 29 2013, 04:49 AM   #4408
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Agenda wrote: View Post
Rather be a "fan" than a sycophant for Abrams and co.
I guess if I'm a sycophant because I don't get upset over a two-hour movie not living up to someone's narrow vision of what Star Trek is, then so be it.
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Old June 29 2013, 10:37 AM   #4409
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I really enjoyed this movie. It's not without its faults, of course (I still have a hard time swallowing Kirk as captain with so little experience). However, the wonderful performance by Cumberbatch allows me to shrug my shoulders a lot. I still think the story would have been just as good with Harrison as another augment, rather than Khan. I think Cumberbatch as a villain was IMO much better than Montalban ever was, both in terms of writing and acting, but then I've never liked TWoK much. The role reversals (Spock's "Khaaaaan!" and Kirk's "dying") did get a smile from me, as intended.
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Old June 29 2013, 03:45 PM   #4410
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

What is the exact line?

Gary told me that you've been friends since he joined the service, that you asked for him aboard his first command.
If the Enterprise is his first command, wouldn't have she said Enterprise? I am of the opinion she would have. She didn't. She said first command. The implication is that there have been other commands. The number of commands was never stated in the canon; it was stated in TMoST that Kirk's first command was a destroyer.

I know that some of you will argue semantics, and I am expecting this, but know this - I am reading what she said literally. I see nothing vague in her comment. What I do see is people relying on ideas that arose later - ideas such as Kirk becoming the youngest captain to serve aboard a starship and that this was his first command. This idea became fixed in the ST Chronology and on the Star Trek website.

I think the thing to remember is that in the time of the first series was that starships weren't a dime a dozen as they became in the later series and movies. They referred specifically to one class of ship, identified as the Starship Class (aka Constitution-class), which were considered the top-of-the-line vessels. They were small in number, and captains had to earn the right to command such a vessel. These vessels came with additional responsibilities, and had larger crew sizes than other ships in the fleet. This was repeated often in the series, by those who successfully commanded such a vessel (Stone, Kirk, Pike) and by those who failed to command such a vessel (Merik). Kirk earned the command by having commanded an earlier vessel, of which we know little.

I am going out on a limb here for equivalency, but the closest parallel to the situation that was described with the Starship Class ships would be the Nimitz-class and Ford-class Aircraft Carriers. To become a captain of an aircraft carrier would be the pinnacle of many captain's careers. All captains of carriers would have served as captains of lesser ships prior to assuming command. Aircraft carriers are the largest ships in the fleet, with each ship like a city at sea, and the captain's responsibilities are greater.

What about Mitchell? We don't know if Mitchell accepted his friend's request - he possibly did accept it. We do know that Mitchell did serve under Kirk on the Enterprise.

Summation: Dehner didn't say Enterprise - she said first command. The Enterprise is an unique ship - a very special ship - that wouldn't be given to a newly promoted captain. For that person to earn the command, they had to prove themselves, which Kirk did on an earlier command. A source that was in contact with the production team would later identify this ship as a destroyer.
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