RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,854
Posts: 5,221,178
Members: 24,232
Currently online: 530
Newest member: glasssplashback

TrekToday headlines

Takei To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Yelchin In New Comedy
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

U.S. Rights For Pegg Comedy Secured
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Shatner: Aging and Work
By: T'Bonz on Apr 23

Kurtzman And Orci Go Solo
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Star Trek #32 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Apr 22

Voyager Bridge Via The Oculus Rift
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21

Miles Away Glyph Award Nominations
By: T'Bonz on Apr 21

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Stargate

Stargate Sir, we can't call it the Enterprise forum.

 
 
Thread Tools
Old June 28 2013, 03:56 PM   #16
Agent Richard07
Admiral
 
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Maybe the alien did something akin to "quantum leaping" into the human body. I'm sure with enough thought and imagination we could come up with something that works.
Agent Richard07 is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 03:58 PM   #17
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Christopher wrote: View Post
I mean, come on, Devlin and Emmerich came up with this idea with limitless potential, a wormhole allowing instant travel to anywhere in the galaxy, and the best they could come up with was a hackneyed ancient-astronaut story and a replica of ancient Egypt? What a profound failure of imagination. The movie is a tremendous letdown. What impresses me so much about the TV franchise is how they managed to take such a shallow foundation and build such a rich and imaginative universe upon it.
In the TV show we get the alien-astronaut story and replicas of Egypt and some Middle Age villages.

And then you're being completely unfair, comparing a TV show with 10 seasons to a film with 2 hours like that.
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 04:01 PM   #18
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: is the stargate movie any good

I'd say the movie was okay, but I wouldn't call it great and I'd hesitate to call it good. By Devlin-Emmerich (hope I got that right) standards it's a remarkably restrained film (possibly the most restrained they ever did?).

It's hard for me to recall seeing the film without having any knowledge of SG-1. There's some impressive scenes, but there's also a lot of stuff that can be a bit slow-going, especially if you're not familiar with SG-1 (i.e. why does any of this matter?).

If you're planning to watch the series anyway, I might recommend looking at the movie as the pilot episode. Which is, I suppose, a bit ironic as SG-1 itself has a pilot episode (two versions, in fact). With all the whackiness and occasional facepalming that that may imply.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 04:16 PM   #19
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: is the stargate movie any good

DonIago wrote: View Post
Which is, I suppose, a bit ironic as SG-1 itself has a pilot episode (two versions, in fact).
The later, revised DVD version of "Children of the Gods" is better overall, although the original pilot edit (which was made for Showtime) has a full-frontal female nude scene. Whether its removal counts as an improvement depends on one's personal tastes and preferences.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 05:09 PM   #20
137th Gebirg
Rear Admiral
 
137th Gebirg's Avatar
 
Location: Who is John Galt?
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
bullethead wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Those tweaks old Chris mentioned actually wiped some of the best concepts of the movie, most notably the enemy alien (changed from a humanoid glowing gray to an eel...sigh) and the operation of the Stargate. (I don't know why they thought it necessary to add LED lights to the chevrons for the series. The gate looked much cooler as a big, enigmatic stone thingie.) The scope also got reduced (Abydos went from being on the other side of the known universe to another part of this galaxy.)
I'll agree partway with the Stargate operation, because I miss the chevrons opening but I like that they glow too. I totally disagree with the original Ra, because I liked how the show subverted the gray alien trope by making them good guys. If they'd kept the old Ra, we'd just see gray aliens being evil like they are in most media.
Gray aliens are a trope whether they're good or bad. Might as well keep the original Ra instead of making him just another slug from the Outer Limits reboot series, which is what happened.
I always wondered if the original movie Ra was actually a Gu'a'uld-possessed Reol (like Kaiael). They sure looked a lot alike.

Ra:


Kaiael:


Maybe?

Oh, and I loved the movie. Was a great start to the franchise.
__________________
Gebirgswick - Ind, Tra, Sec & Env.
137th Gebirg is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 06:38 PM   #21
Admiral2
Vice Admiral
 
Admiral2's Avatar
 
Location: Tokyo Bay
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Christopher wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Any sufficiently advanced technology would seem like magic to the less advanced.
That's a saying that's often abused. There is, in fact, a fundamental difference between technology and magic, in that the former is constrained by the fundamental laws of physics. Not to mention that we're talking about biology here, not technology.
How do you know we're not talking about technology? Ra's sarcophagus raised Jackson from the dead and fixed his fatally wounded girlfriend. How do you know it wasn't also capable of merging two humanoid beings so that one's consciousness can supplant the other's?

You don't, because it was never addressed in the movie and the series retconned Ra's race into a bunch of eels so we can have dramatic shots of slippery green phalluses jumping into people's mouths to take them over.


Anyway, yes, certainly, some fiction is more fanciful than others, but that's my point -- that while the Stargate movie was essentially a work of fantasy (as is Doctor Who, of course), the Stargate TV franchise often managed to be one of the more scientifically literate SF shows around. Some of its ideas were quite fanciful, but on the whole it generally tried to take the silly ideas from the movie and rework them into something more scientifically plausible. Sometimes it managed to do excellent hard SF, notably in the episode "Tangent." Given how rare it is for any SF on television or film to be remotely scientifically literate, that's a noteworthy accomplishment and helps make the TV franchise stand out from the pack in a way the movie totally failed to do.
I guess that depends on what ideas you define as silly. We disagree on which. Not a shock. As much as I loved SG-1, it has always fallen short of the quality of the movie in my eyes.


And just in general, the TV franchise's worldbuilding and conceptual development was far, far richer than what the movie managed.
Bull. All they really did was pick new mythologies to turn into aliens, which is just the movie in multiple.

I mean, come on, Devlin and Emmerich came up with this idea with limitless potential, a wormhole allowing instant travel to anywhere in the galaxy,
Universe...

and the best they could come up with was a hackneyed ancient-astronaut story and a replica of ancient Egypt?
And all the producers of the show did was tack on more ancient cultures using the same ancient astronaut trope! They even had a race frigging called THE ANCIENTS!

What a profound failure of imagination.
One without which the TV guys would have had nothing rework.

The movie is a tremendous letdown.
To you. I thought it was great. I enjoy it every time I see it.

What impresses me so much about the TV franchise is how they managed to take such a shallow foundation and build such a rich and imaginative universe upon it. I daresay it's the only SFTV universe that can compare with Star Trek for sheer scope, richness, and coherence. In some ways it's even more coherent than ST managed to be, since it remained mostly under the same creators' control throughout its tenure. (Although unlike ST, its short-lived animated incarnation is unambiguously non-canonical.)
The series is better than Star Trek. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.

Doctor Who's universe certainly has scope and richness, but coherence has never been one of its features.
Yet, it has been on for decades, and its fans generally don't give a shit if it makes any kind of rational sense.
__________________
"YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHRRRRRRRRORRRUNNK!"

-Godzilla, King Of The Monsters
Admiral2 is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 07:26 PM   #22
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Christopher wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
Which is, I suppose, a bit ironic as SG-1 itself has a pilot episode (two versions, in fact).
The later, revised DVD version of "Children of the Gods" is better overall, although the original pilot edit (which was made for Showtime) has a full-frontal female nude scene. Whether its removal counts as an improvement depends on one's personal tastes and preferences.
I'll admit I'm a bit titillated by the nude scene (sorry, I had to), though as a gay man it doesn't actually do anything for me; it's just so radically different from anything else that occurs in the entire franchise.

There are aspects of the revised pilot that I enjoy, but especially for anyone planning to get into the series there's an omission that -really- bugs me because it creates continuity problems with later episodes.

Also, I kind of miss the original ship stuff...granted we never saw it again and what we see instead fits in better with the series, but I still thought it was nifty, if a bit of a head-scratcher.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 08:14 PM   #23
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: is the stargate movie any good

DonIago wrote: View Post
There are aspects of the revised pilot that I enjoy, but especially for anyone planning to get into the series there's an omission that -really- bugs me because it creates continuity problems with later episodes.
What's the omission?
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 09:17 PM   #24
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Christopher wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
There are aspects of the revised pilot that I enjoy, but especially for anyone planning to get into the series there's an omission that -really- bugs me because it creates continuity problems with later episodes.
What's the omission?
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 10:02 PM   #25
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: is the stargate movie any good

The movie looks fantastic but really isn't - it's hugely mundane. The TV spinoff wasn't a lot to write home about either, but gradually built and built into a worthwhile franchise. I enjoyed Atlantis too, even if it was a 2nd class retread, and Universe was great - sadly it didn't run anywhere near long enough...
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 10:16 PM   #26
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: is the stargate movie any good

DonIago wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
There are aspects of the revised pilot that I enjoy, but especially for anyone planning to get into the series there's an omission that -really- bugs me because it creates continuity problems with later episodes.
What's the omission?
Oh, that. I think it was omitted because Brad Wright's priority in the re-edit was what made it work best as a standalone movie, so that cliffhanger for the next episode proved unnecessary. Still, I don't think it creates a contradiction; it just omits showing us something. If anything, it makes the revelation in episode 2 more of a surprise. (Although episode 2 probably opens with a recap that includes that scene.)
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline  
Old June 28 2013, 11:56 PM   #27
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Christopher wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post

What's the omission?
Oh, that. I think it was omitted because Brad Wright's priority in the re-edit was what made it work best as a standalone movie, so that cliffhanger for the next episode proved unnecessary. Still, I don't think it creates a contradiction; it just omits showing us something. If anything, it makes the revelation in episode 2 more of a surprise. (Although episode 2 probably opens with a recap that includes that scene.)
I agree with your belief regarding the underlying motivation, but I still think it was an unfortunate choice for anyone who'd like to watch the series after seeing it and doesn't know what they're missing.

While I agree it would make what happens in the following episode more of a surprise, IMO it would escalate it to the level of a "WTF? Why weren't there any hints of that in the previous episode?" type of surprise. Or, in Trek, parlance, a surprise on the level of Seven/Chakotay.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline  
Old June 29 2013, 12:55 AM   #28
stj
Rear Admiral
 
stj's Avatar
 
Location: the real world
Re: is the stargate movie any good

The set designs in the movie are better.

The score is better (not saying Joel Goldsmith is in any way bad.)

The fact that people don't all speak English is enormously better.

The Von Daenikenite crap is still in the series. What doesn't quite kill a two hour movie of course would have destroyed a ten year TV series if taken seriously, so the series' turn toward comedy was a godsend.

The people revolting (and saving the soldiers) is still a notable exception to the dismissal of ordinary people, especially foreign ones.
__________________
The people of this country need regime change here, not abroad.
stj is offline  
Old June 29 2013, 07:32 PM   #29
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: is the stargate movie any good

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Any sufficiently advanced technology would seem like magic to the less advanced.
That's a saying that's often abused. There is, in fact, a fundamental difference between technology and magic, in that the former is constrained by the fundamental laws of physics. Not to mention that we're talking about biology here, not technology.
How do you know we're not talking about technology? Ra's sarcophagus raised Jackson from the dead and fixed his fatally wounded girlfriend. How do you know it wasn't also capable of merging two humanoid beings so that one's consciousness can supplant the other's?

You don't, because it was never addressed in the movie and the series retconned Ra's race into a bunch of eels so we can have dramatic shots of slippery green phalluses jumping into people's mouths to take them over.



I guess that depends on what ideas you define as silly. We disagree on which. Not a shock. As much as I loved SG-1, it has always fallen short of the quality of the movie in my eyes.



Bull. All they really did was pick new mythologies to turn into aliens, which is just the movie in multiple.



Universe...



And all the producers of the show did was tack on more ancient cultures using the same ancient astronaut trope! They even had a race frigging called THE ANCIENTS!



One without which the TV guys would have had nothing rework.



To you. I thought it was great. I enjoy it every time I see it.

What impresses me so much about the TV franchise is how they managed to take such a shallow foundation and build such a rich and imaginative universe upon it. I daresay it's the only SFTV universe that can compare with Star Trek for sheer scope, richness, and coherence. In some ways it's even more coherent than ST managed to be, since it remained mostly under the same creators' control throughout its tenure. (Although unlike ST, its short-lived animated incarnation is unambiguously non-canonical.)
The series is better than Star Trek. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.

Doctor Who's universe certainly has scope and richness, but coherence has never been one of its features.
Yet, it has been on for decades, and its fans generally don't give a shit if it makes any kind of rational sense.
But in the case of DW, it's a time travel show. And as the 2005- run of the show has said on several occasions "Time Can be re-written"
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline  
Old June 29 2013, 07:40 PM   #30
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: is the stargate movie any good

The point is, there's a whole gamut of fiction styles from sheer fantasy to scientifically literate hard SF, but almost everything in film and television tends more toward the fantasy side of the spectrum, so when we get something like the Stargate TV franchise where the producers actually made an effort to learn and incorporate valid science at least some of the time, that's a refreshing exception to the norm. There's room for more fanciful shows, sure, but there's room for more science-savvy ones too, yet hardly anyone is willing to make the effort to do those, so it's impressive when someone does.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.