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Old June 27 2013, 10:32 PM   #541
sonak
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Belz... wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Eh, I have no problem simply because of Post-Scarcity as an idea.

People have no money because they have everything they could conceivably want, just by asking.
And why would you do anything in such a society ? What's the incentive ?

why do rich athletes, rich movie stars, CEOs, etc. work?

by your logic, when someone makes just enough to be able to coast through life on their savings, they wouldn't work anymore.


Since that's clearly NOT what happens, there must be other reasons for folks to work.
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Old June 27 2013, 10:43 PM   #542
Charles Phipps
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Belz... wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I follow. Again, in a moneyless society, what would you do with your day ? Why would you go work long hours at the hospital, or pick up garbage, or do some construction work, or fill out forms when you can spend your day at the beach, or in a museum, or watching tv ? I mean, if you can have anything you want anyway, why do any hard work unless you feel like it ?
Self-actualization, public pressure, education. At the end of the day, a lot of people who are able to make do unemployed feel valueless and unsatisfied with their life. Their job provides them a sense of identity and self-worth.

As stated, the leap is people WANT to work versus 100% pleasure. We've had examples of both in society.
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Old June 27 2013, 10:58 PM   #543
Crazyewok
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

[QUOTE=sonak;8308534]
Belz... wrote: View Post


why do rich athletes, rich movie stars, CEOs, etc. work?

by your logic, when someone makes just enough to be able to coast through life on their savings, they wouldn't work anymore.


Since that's clearly NOT what happens, there must be other reasons for folks to work.
But everyone cant be a Movie star or CEO/

Someone is going to have to go into the sewer and pull the crap out the pipes that get stuck.

No one is going to want to do that job unless they have a weird fetish.
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Old June 27 2013, 10:59 PM   #544
robau
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Not having fulfilling work each day really kind of sucks.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:00 PM   #545
Charles Phipps
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Does it have to be backbreaking labor? That's the real question for the 24th century.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:02 PM   #546
Crazyewok
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Does it have to be backbreaking labor? That's the real question for the 24th century.
Well as being asigned to waste extraction is always being thrown about it seem like yes there is some.


Plus you still have to have people working in offices and over really mundane crap jobs.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:04 PM   #547
Charles Phipps
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Even garbage men are often fulfilled by doing a central service.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:08 PM   #548
Crazyewok
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Even garbage men are often fulfilled by doing a central service.
O come on how many do you really think would carry on if they did not get paid!
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Old June 27 2013, 11:27 PM   #549
Charles Phipps
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

It's a question of how many would be unemployed and on the equivalent of Federation Welfare otherwise, which many could be.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:58 PM   #550
R. Star
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Federation Welfare: Having to wait in line at a communal replicator.
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Old June 28 2013, 01:33 AM   #551
Charles Phipps
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

"Here's your house, here's your replicator, don't bug us."

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Old June 28 2013, 02:30 AM   #552
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

From the "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" novelization:

01. Kirk (and other Starfleet personnel) having something implanted in his brain to allow him to view the Klingon transmission of their encounter with an intruder (V'ger).

02. That Starfleet personnel are primitive or less sophisticated compared to the rest of the human race. That these lesser humans are well suited for space exploration.

I'm glad these 2 ideas did not make it into the film.


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Old June 28 2013, 02:32 AM   #553
Nightdiamond
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Even garbage men are often fulfilled by doing a central service.
O come on how many do you really think would carry on if they did not get paid!
Like Data's maid in AGT. Is she cleaning up after him, servicing him, doing chores for him because she finds it fulfilling?

Or the Starfleet groundskeeper Picard spoke about--why is he putting so much effort to make Starfleet Academy so beautiful?

It's not his property and he's not getting paid to do it.

In Tapestry, Picard once called a job he had in an alternate life a dreary job, suggesting that it was beneath him-- this seems to say that there is a form of snobbery that still exists when it comes to jobs.

But by calling it a dreary job may be an insult to someone who studied years just to do that.
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Old June 28 2013, 03:44 AM   #554
TheGoodNews
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

O come on how many do you really think would carry on if they did not get paid!
Dude, you're not thinking it through. First defined paid? Aren't they already being paid forward by living in a society that doesn't require money and allows them so much in return for whatever it is they decide to do?

And think of necessity. The mundane or menial jobs can be rotated like in kibbutz. Say two weeks out of the year you wash windows or scrub toilets (assuming that's still even necessary in the future). You do it out of necessity, the greatest incentive ever! Otherwise it's back to being a wage-slave and living in debt. Think it through.
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Old June 28 2013, 07:49 AM   #555
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Navigator_NCC2120 wrote: View Post
From the "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" novelization:

01. Kirk (and other Starfleet personnel) having something implanted in his brain to allow him to view the Klingon transmission of their encounter with an intruder (V'ger).

02. That Starfleet personnel are primitive or less sophisticated compared to the rest of the human race. That these lesser humans are well suited for space exploration.

I'm glad these 2 ideas did not make it into the film.


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I would have to disagree. The first is a great scifi concept. The second helps explain why the Starfleet crews we see seem like so much like 20th century humans when the human race should have changed quite a bit in 300 years.
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