RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,094
Posts: 5,432,431
Members: 24,931
Currently online: 507
Newest member: emogs

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate A Choice of Futures.
Outstanding 54 50.47%
Above Average 39 36.45%
Average 10 9.35%
Below Average 2 1.87%
Poor 2 1.87%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 26 2013, 05:00 PM   #61
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Some more thoughts.

__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 05:13 PM   #62
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 05:39 PM   #63
Sho
Fleet Captain
 
Sho's Avatar
 
Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I just bought my copy, and was surprised to find that it seems to be on sale at Kobo - only 5,94€.
Sho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 04:54 PM   #64
Reanok
Commodore
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I finished reading this book yesterday and really enjoyed the fact this story tied in directly to certain Startrek Enterprise tv shows.
It was nice to see T'Pol and Malcolm's different command styles and seeing actual space exploration in this book

Last edited by Reanok; June 27 2013 at 10:14 PM.
Reanok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 05:14 PM   #65
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

^I think Garos would agree with David Xanatos: "Revenge is a sucker's game." Although if he could achieve it as a fringe benefit of a more practically motivated plan, he wouldn't say no.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 09:01 PM   #66
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Oh some more thoughts since I think we all actually love discussing books around here, for some reason.

__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 10:24 PM   #67
hbquikcomjamesl
Commander
 
hbquikcomjamesl's Avatar
 
Location: Orange County, CA
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Uh, no, it's canonical that Earth's warp drive technology uses outboard nacelles, q.v., the Phoenix.

hbquikcomjamesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 10:40 PM   #68
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

How unfortunate.

I guess I was excited about important Trek stuff being from other cultures than Earth.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 11:25 PM   #69
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Did you make it so the nascelles are of Andorian origin? I little about Star Trek tech. If so, it's a nice nod that not everything is Earth-based.
As stated, Cochrane warp drives have always been twin-nacelle designs since the original prototype. Andorians also use twin nacelles, but theirs are close in to the centerline of the ship and vertically stacked. I like to think that future Starfleet designs with vertical nacelles like the Constellation class, or with centerline-positioned ones like on the Kelvin, are Andorian-influenced.

I established in the book that Federation technology gets deflector shields from the Andorians and tractor beams from the Vulcans. Also the TOS-era bridge layout, with outward-facing consoles and twin helm/nav stations in front, is implied to be based on Andorian bridge layouts (e.g. the Kumari bridge in ENT's "Proving Ground"). I like to think that some of the less glamorous tech used in life support, food processing, etc. is of Tellarite origin. And ENT itself established that holodecks were a Xyrillian invention and implied that photon(ic) torpedoes were obtained from the Vissians (whereas Klingons already had photon torpedoes according to "Sleeping Dogs"). A lot of Federation medical knowledge, meanwhile, probably comes from the Denobulans through Phlox, and (according to Vanguard: Open Secrets) from the Vulcans, mainly through the efforts of a doctor named Sobon.


Well, that's decades beyond the timeframe I'm focusing on.

__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 11:28 PM   #70
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I stand corrected.

That's some really impressive attention to detail, Christopher re: technology.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2013, 04:32 AM   #71
Ktrek
Captain
 
Ktrek's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

I wish the polls were public. I'd like to know who the two jokers are that rated this book as "poor"! This is the only Trek fiction book released this year that I am actually enjoying. In fact I love it so far. I'll add my vote when I read the final page and have had a day or two to digest it.

Kevin
__________________
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine
Ktrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2013, 05:21 AM   #72
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Clearly one was Mirror Universe me, since I loved it.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2013, 06:22 AM   #73
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Christopher wrote: View Post
So a lot of the chaos and conflict of the 20th century could've been avoided if the winners in WWI just hadn't been such jerks.
Well unless Stalin got any ideas. I mean the guy was a douchebag.

Or the Great Depression still screwed up Germany enough that Hitler still managed to come to power.

Last edited by Hartzilla2007; June 28 2013 at 01:44 PM.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2013, 02:44 PM   #74
Edit_XYZ
Fleet Captain
 
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
 
Location: At star's end.
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
I think there are several issues in play here:
Is naked survival the only goal? The ones who surrendered were not treated nicely by any measure of the imagination.
Depends on the conqueror. Khan, despite his reputation, was aware of the maxim. "Dead men pay no tribute."
More like 'One needs to leave a few (and that means FEW) men alive to pay taxes'.
Genocide to the last man/of a very large percentage of the population was a standard, institutionalized part of his regime.

As for the ones who surrendered and never once disobeyed him - one habitual way to test their fidelity was to send a mongol trooper into the town/village/etc; said trooper would start killing people indiscriminately. The town was not to react in any way. This was as mild as it got by mongol standards.


Christopher, above, put Genghis Khan and Alexander Macedon on the same level.
They're not.
Macedon used genocide as well, but it was the exception, not the rule; with Khan, it was the rule.
Macedon spread greek culture, which benefited many; and Khan?
The overall effect was positive - on a historical scale - for Macedon. Not so for Kahn - just ask any russian; any person whose nation Khan conquered. Look how the conquered regions looked before and after Khan was done with them.

History, as a whole, would be much different if the serfs and so on resisted to the last man against conquerors since most of history has 99% of humanity paying tribute lest they be killed or enslaved.

It's also a form of the Prisoner's Dilemma. Genghis Khan (like many rulers across history) gambled that not enough people would resist versus submission to make a difference. 14 City-States, all of them resist, it's a victory. 1 resists, it's destroyed. So who is going to resist without guarantee of the others?

If you surrender, the Khan might be overthrown the next year or die or you might join up with the Horde (which is how he and Saladin ran things--the latter conquering all of the Middle East by having one conquest pay for the next). The next Khan might be better too.

Death for you and your family...is very eternal.
Charles Phipps, the options would be:
-fight
-surrender
-non-violent resistance (the option you advocated)

If you fight, you may win or lose. As I said, humans can't predict the future with any reliability.
Unless the chances of events happening/not happening are very high - for example, humans could predict reliably that Khan almost certainly won't die by next year, or, if he did, it's almost certain an equally nasty successor will inherit the throne.

If you surrender, you and your family will have a life that many consider worse than death - until release by death by means of malnutrition/overwork/disease/some mongol trooper having his version of fun.
If you're a woman/girl you can look forward to being constantly raped by the ones you surrendered to.

And now, for the third option - non-violent resistance:
You have no chance of victory. Khan will just kill all such resistors - and then laugh at their imbecility. Finally, he'll treat the rest of the population as if they resisted.
By far, the worst of the three options.

The ones who resisted assumed they had a chance of victory. It was a gamble they lost; but, if won, it would mean freedom and relative quality of life over de facto slavery.
Which is a point why weighing your options works well.

"The Corbomite Manuever" is one of my favorite "Space Battles" in Star Trek (baby at the end aside) because it shows everyone being a rationale actor. They don't know the other, they are both posturing because they don't want to show weakness, and neither side is a bad person. They could go in phasers firing but that would just get everyone (possibly) killed. It's pro-peace but it's peace by making sure that the other side is aware the other isn't a target either.
No side really wants war or is a bad person.
Guess what? Khan, Macedon, many others in the past and present DO WANT WAR.
And this is why "The corbomite maneuver"/associated game theory is irrelevant in such situations.
__________________
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton

Last edited by Edit_XYZ; June 28 2013 at 03:09 PM.
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 28 2013, 06:11 PM   #75
hbquikcomjamesl
Commander
 
hbquikcomjamesl's Avatar
 
Location: Orange County, CA
Re: ENT: A Choice of Futures by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Guess what? Khan, Macedon, many others in the past and present DO WANT WAR.
That was the real root cause of World War I: the leaders of ALL the principal combatant nations DID want war. And the root cause of the situation that allowed Hitler to come to power was that most of those leaders, when the true horrors of war with 20th century WMDs came to light, didn't want to admit that they'd wanted war, and so they blamed it all on the nation that had been the most effective among the losers.
hbquikcomjamesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reviewpoll_v1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.