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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old June 27 2013, 01:53 AM   #1
cannicks
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Sisko/Picard in Emissary

I think Sisko's reaction to Picard was understandable, even if Picard didn't actually kill Jennifer.

However, I think ultimately Starfleet should be blamed for Wolf 359.

They sent the Enterprise to "hold off" the Cube. But how can one starship, even a top of the line vessel as the Enterprise was at that time, "hold off" a Borg Cube? Picard's capture was inevitable. He couldn't have ordered the Enterprise to outrun the Cube. There were only limited shield modulations available, as the spectrum is not infinite.

And even if Picard had placed security officers on the bridge, whilst initial Borg would have been killed, they would have sent more drones, adapted to phasers and subdued Worf, Riker, Wesley, perhaps even Data, and captured Picard. A forcefield around deck 1 (the bridge, Picard's ready room and the observation lounge) wouldn't have worked either, as the Borg can disable forcefields at will.

So any "blame" is not Picard's (IMO), but ultimately Starfleet's. Besides, how come a fleet at Wolf 359 had to be mobilised readily? As Wolf 359 is evidently a local star, and that most of the core/founding worlds are in proximity (Earth, Vulcan, Tellar and Andor are evidently local in galatic terms), doesn't it make sense for there to be a "home fleet" at all times? Moreover, the core/foundation planets are near Romulan space. Well they had to be if Archer met the Romulans and is his day ships didn't travel as fast vis a vis the 2300s. The home fleet could have been sent to meet the Cube and defeated it, which they may have done had Picard not been converted to Locutus.

I'm not saying that Sisko's reaction was unwarranted per se, just not fully justified. I think they should have brought Picard back in a later episode, and perhaps used this as a basis of the interaction. Or Picard could have caught up with Worf, though he may have held his blood wine better than O'Brien did lol...
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Old June 27 2013, 04:51 AM   #2
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

I thought we might be coming up on time for this topic again.
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Old June 27 2013, 06:01 AM   #3
R. Star
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=212989

That thread came up just last month. I said pretty much every thing I had to say on the subject there.
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Old June 27 2013, 06:06 AM   #4
dub
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

I get what you're saying. But to me, it was justified in a human sense. It was also justified as part of the story. Picard represented both the Borg (Locutus) and Starfleet (Picard), but also he represented the moment in time which the prophets revealed was the moment in which Sisko exists. Sisko needed that confrontation with Picard and his experience with the prophets to help him understand that it was time to move on. The prophets needed Sisko's anguish over that moment to understand linear existence. And at the end of the episode, Picard gets some of the forgiveness he needed in that handshake from Sisko. So for me, it all flowed together nicely and the blame, understanding and forgiveness were all justified in their own ways. It may not be 100% logical, but it was a very human reaction and it sure made for some great storytelling!
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Old June 27 2013, 03:37 PM   #5
Sran
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

cannicks wrote: View Post
However, I think ultimately Starfleet should be blamed for Wolf 359.
Give me a break.

cannicks wrote:
They sent the Enterprise to "hold off" the Cube. But how can one starship, even a top of the line vessel as the Enterprise was at that time, "hold off" a Borg Cube?
The Enterprise was the only ship in the immediate vicinity of the Borg Cube. Starfleet had no choice but to ask them to intercept.

cannicks wrote:
So any "blame" is not Picard's (IMO), but ultimately Starfleet's. Besides, how come a fleet at Wolf 359 had to be mobilised readily? As Wolf 359 is evidently a local star, and that most of the core/founding worlds are in proximity (Earth, Vulcan, Tellar and Andor are evidently local in galatic terms), doesn't it make sense for there to be a "home fleet" at all times?
Assigning a large number of ships to defend a low-risk area is a complete waste of manpower, resources, and equipment. Aside from the Borg attack, the area surrounding Earth's solar system was devoid of any suspicious activity. It would not have made sense for Starfleet to devote so much attention to an area that's a security risk.

cannicks wrote:
Moreover, the core/foundation planets are near Romulan space. Well they had to be if Archer met the Romulans and is his day ships didn't travel as fast vis a vis the 2300s. The home fleet could have been sent to meet the Cube and defeated it, which they may have done had Picard not been converted to Locutus.
What do the Romulans have to do with a Borg invasion? In any case, there is zero cannon evidence to suggest that Romulan space is in close proximity to Earth.

There's no guarantee that a large fleet would have defeated the Borg Cube, Picard or no. The cube destroyed thirty nine Federation vessels, and was rumored to have destroyed several Klingon and Romulan ships, as well. Destruction of that magnitude would not likely have been prevented by Locutus' absence.

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Old June 27 2013, 03:50 PM   #6
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

One way to "hold off" the Borg Cube before they got Picard or anywhere near Earth would be to ram the E-D into the Cube as soon as they made contact.

They may not have destroyed the Cube outright, but as the Borg repaired their ship Starfleet would have had more time to assemble a bigger fleet in Wolf 359, which would stand a better chance as the Cube wouldn't have the tactical knowledge of Picard to use against Starfleet.
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Old June 27 2013, 04:09 PM   #7
Sran
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
One way to "hold off" the Borg Cube before they got Picard or anywhere near Earth would be to ram the E-D into the Cube as soon as they made contact.

They may not have destroyed the Cube outright, but as the Borg repaired their ship Starfleet would have had more time to assemble a bigger fleet in Wolf 359, which would stand a better chance as the Cube wouldn't have the tactical knowledge of Picard to use against Starfleet.
True, but Starfleet also hoped to learn as much as it could about the Borg and was hoping Enterprise would collect data that might be useful in the coming conflict. A suicide run by Picard would not have accomplished that. Riker was prepared to sacrifice Enterprise, but only because Earth was threatened.

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Old June 27 2013, 04:45 PM   #8
cannicks
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

It has been stated numerous times that romulan space is near earth.

Also starfleet is to blame. They sent one ship against an invincible cube. Mnost here seemingly blame picard for the oncident but what is he to? Whilst logic doesnt exist he canbot be logicalltly blamrd forfora assumilation.
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Old June 27 2013, 04:59 PM   #9
Sran
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

cannicks wrote: View Post
It has been stated numerous times that romulan space is near earth.
When? You've cited absolutely no factual information to support this. If you're going to make an argument, you need to provide facts to back it up. You haven't done so in even the smallest degree despite my asking you to do so.

cannicks wrote:
Also starfleet is to blame. They sent one ship against an invincible cube. Mnost here seemingly blame picard for the oncident but what is he to? Whilst logic doesnt exist he canbot be logicalltly blamrd forfora assumilation.
I'm going to ignore the atrocious spelling and grammar in this paragraph and address only what's legible. Starfleet asked the Enterprise to intercept because they were the closest vessel. The Federation was not anticipating a Borg invasion so soon after the incident at J-25 and did not have time to assemble a large fleet to thwart an incursion into their space.

As for Sisko, he chose to serve in Starfleet and knew the risks inherent in having his family aboard the Saratoga with him. I'm not suggesting that he was at fault for what happened: he wasn't. But he understood the risks he took, and blaming Starfleet for a tragedy that could not have been avoided is an absolutely ridiculous argument.

Moreover, why are you assuming that anyone at all should be blamed for what happened? This may come as a surprise to you, but bad things often happen for no reason. Not everything can be explained away by conveniently assigning blame or handing down punishment. Life is much complicated than that, something Sisko doubtless realized during his time with the Prophets. Such a realization doesn't make the pain of losing a loved any easier to bear, but it does help those left behind to move forward and avoid being consumed by their grief, sadness, or anger.

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Old June 27 2013, 05:07 PM   #10
R. Star
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

Wolf 359 was an inside job!
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Old June 27 2013, 05:10 PM   #11
Sran
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Re: Sisko/Picard in Emissary

R. Star wrote: View Post
Wolf 359 was an inside job!
All joking aside, I'm still waiting for cannicks to provide facts to support his points.

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