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Old June 26 2013, 08:11 PM   #241
Scout101
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Yeah, didn't expect that. Figured they'd go after the obstruction bit, and eventually for Accessory, but must have something good to go for the Murder charge...
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Old June 27 2013, 12:14 PM   #242
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Top five Patriots players in yards receiving last year, and where they are now:

1) Wes Welker -- Denver
2) Brandon Lloyd -- free agent
3) Rob Gronkowski -- in NE, but injured
4) Aaron Hernandez -- charged with murder
5) Danny Woodhead -- San Diego
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Old June 27 2013, 12:18 PM   #243
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Well, if Hernandez & Wolcott (cut by Cleveland for attempted murder charges) beat the rap(s), at least they'll have a place on the Bengals.
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Old June 27 2013, 12:53 PM   #244
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
Well, if Hernandez & Wolcott (cut by Cleveland for attempted murder charges) beat the rap(s), at least they'll have a place on the Bengals.
No, they end up on the eagles so vick could help them get reassociated with league, cause you know hes an great role model.
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Old June 27 2013, 03:35 PM   #245
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

chrisspringob wrote: View Post
Top five Patriots players in yards receiving last year, and where they are now:

1) Wes Welker -- Denver
2) Brandon Lloyd -- free agent
3) Rob Gronkowski -- in NE, but injured
4) Aaron Hernandez -- charged with murder
5) Danny Woodhead -- San Diego
Thanks for ruining my day.
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Old June 27 2013, 05:06 PM   #246
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Ar-Pharazon wrote: View Post
Well, if Hernandez & Wolcott (cut by Cleveland for attempted murder charges) beat the rap(s), at least they'll have a place on the Bengals.
All jokes aside, I really don't ever want to hear the phrase "the Patriot way" ever again. The media would have you believe that the Patriots are this model to be emulated of players that play the game unselfishly and play the game the "right way." Here is a list of those players from the last few years that make that phrase bullshit.

1. Cory Dillon (Lots of problems elsewhere but kept his nose clean in NE for the most part)
2. Albert Haynesworth (Refused to get in playing shape)
3. Randy Moss (Productive for a while but ultimately was a clubhouse killer)
4. Aaron Hernandez (Cut him after murder charges, no brainer)
5. Tebow (Good clubhouse guy, hard worker, but still a huge media distraction)

They don't have these mythical saintly standards for their players. They are well coached and they have arguably the best QB to ever play the game leading their team. They will win consistently until Brady can't go anymore. If Bellicheck thought he could win with Michael Vick a few years ago he would have been making conjugal visits on a weekly basis. They love to make fun of teams like the Jets and Cowboys for being a media circus but then troll the world by signing Tebow.
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Old June 27 2013, 06:16 PM   #247
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Use of Time wrote: View Post
They are well coached and they have arguably the best QB to ever play the game leading their team. They will win consistently until Brady can't go anymore.
I'm interested to see how Brady performs without an all-star cast of receivers. There has always been a lot of emphasis on Brady winning these games, but this is his opportunity to still do it with brand new players.

We saw Peyton Manning throw to brand new guys last season (and three seasons ago, with mostly new players except for Reggie Wayne), so we know he's got the arm. But Brady is a guy we've never seen throw to anyone who isn't a Patriot, since he's skipped out on the last 7 or so Pro Bowl's that he's been invited to.
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Old June 27 2013, 10:27 PM   #248
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

According to CNN, Hernandez is being investigated for two murders that happened in Boston in 2012.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/27/us/nfl...html?hpt=hp_t1
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Old June 28 2013, 02:06 AM   #249
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
I can think of far worse places for Tebow to land. There will be zero QB controversy and no pressure on Tebow to do anything but sit back and learn. And honestly, if he can't learn how to be consistent under Brady and Belichick, then there really is no hope for him. While I do think he would have been a better backup in a location like SanFran, Washington, or Seattle, I do think that he has a good opportunity in New England.
Tebow is consistent. He can't throw in any game.
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Old June 28 2013, 05:58 AM   #250
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

He's shown flashes of talent. The Broncos beat the Vikings and the Steelers in large part because of how well he threw those games, and he managed to throw respectably during "Tebow time". If he learns to do that all the time, there's no reason why he can't have success in the league.
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Old June 28 2013, 12:40 PM   #251
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Use of Time wrote: View Post
All jokes aside, I really don't ever want to hear the phrase "the Patriot way" ever again. The media would have you believe that the Patriots are this model to be emulated of players that play the game unselfishly and play the game the "right way." Here is a list of those players from the last few years that make that phrase bullshit.
I'm sorry, but if you were trying to make a point, you failed miserably. Sure there were better examples, but you picked really poor ones to try and stay with the names people would recognize. Let's look:

1. Cory Dillon (Lots of problems elsewhere but kept his nose clean in NE for the most part)
So your example is...what? That he was a dink with the Bengals, but fine with New England? No problems I'm aware of there, and won a ring his first year. Worst example you could have picked, as he's the type of player they've been chasing since. Problem with other team, came to the Patriots and 'saw the light', model citizen in New England. Every reclamation project since has been trying to recapture that success.

2. Albert Haynesworth (Refused to get in playing shape)
Not really an example of a Patriot at all, was he? Played in what, a couple games max? And they cut him for being a lazy slob, which is kinda the opposite of your example.

3. Randy Moss (Productive for a while but ultimately was a clubhouse killer)
Again, what are you trying to show? Right up until his expiring contract made him a bit crazy/selfish, he was a model citizen here. Nothing I'm aware of for problems, and great on the field. Weird that you're actually listing some of the Pats' better redemption stories to try and damn them

4. Aaron Hernandez (Cut him after murder charges, no brainer)
Finally got one, although a bit obvious. While there's plenty of undesirable parts of his past that could have been a warning, that's true of a LOT of NFL players. If you're suggesting anyone should have known he'd murder someone...? Up until this shitshow, looked like he'd put some of that behind him, but more coming out now suggests that maybe not as behind him as we thought. Sad, especially given his talent. And even then, Pats cut him before convicted of anything, and without considering that it would have been better cap-wise to wait and fight the bonus money first, so even in the best example, there's still some of the principle you're telling us doesn't exist. Would have been just as easy to suspend him and let it play out, they cut him 90 minutes after he was arrested, and turned him away earlier in the week when he tried to show up and practice.

5. Tebow (Good clubhouse guy, hard worker, but still a huge media distraction)
Now you're just desperate and ran out of names/ideas. Even your example of why he shows how the Patriots Way doesn't exist just lists his good qualities May suck as a QB, but pretty much the shining example of the rest. Also, since he's been on the team like 3 weeks and never played a game, pretty lazy to even mention him. Media distraction is a low bar, and even then, MUCH less of one than when he was on the Jets' roster.

They don't have these mythical saintly standards for their players. They are well coached and they have arguably the best QB to ever play the game leading their team. They will win consistently until Brady can't go anymore. If Bellicheck thought he could win with Michael Vick a few years ago he would have been making conjugal visits on a weekly basis. They love to make fun of teams like the Jets and Cowboys for being a media circus but then troll the world by signing Tebow.
No, they like to make fun of the Jets because they suck, are horribly coached and managed, and they run their fucking mouths about being the best, going to beat everyone, etc. while ass-fumbling their way to a middling record every year. If you do nothing but talk shit constantly, and can't back ANY of it up, not going to be thought of well. Their own fault, maybe just STFU until they actually accomplish something?

And yeah, Belichick hates the Jets, has some personal stakes there. And definitely seems to enjoy taking players the Jets can't figure out and showing them what they missed out on, just to tweak the Jets. Danny Woodhead being the most recent example. Maybe Tebow will turn into something, maybe Belichick just took him in to tweak the Jets, or maybe he's just competing for a 3rd QB spot and you're making too big a deal out of it for someone who won't be on the gameday roster. Or the Pats will turn him into a crazy-good TE or RB or something off the wall like that, and show everyone that Tebow is just fine, but they were using him wrong But probably just the 3rd QB thing, if he makes the final roster at all...

In general, yeah the Patriots' Way thing IS a little nonsense, and media-created, but you showed with the examples you picked that there really aren't many incidents to pick from, and you went back a decade to try and find some. I mean, you could have found a few minor things, but they were to bit-players that no one really knows, so don't make the splash you wanted.

You'd have had a better argument if you tried to pick on the Florida players that the Pats have signed lately. Media made a big deal about the Urban Myers connection to the Pats, and how great they were doing there, but in the past few drafts there, we got:

-Chad Jackson: complete bust

-Jermaine Cunningham: PED suspension last year, otherwise was his first decent year since we got him, likely bust

-Aaron Hernandez: murder, cut

- Brandon Spikes: Pretty good player, but PED suspension and had his dick out on a ChatRoulette incident

Maybe Florida players are our problem?
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Old June 28 2013, 02:38 PM   #252
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Only other examples I can come up with, but could have mentioned:

-Alfonzo Dennard. Pre-draft incident where he got into a scuffle with a cop, apparently. Ended up with community service, I think, and it was before he was drafted. Main reason he was drafted in the 7th round vice being a 3rd rounder or so as projected.

-I think Talib had issues a few years back, when he was with the Bucs. Kept his head down with the Pats so far, and they only gave him a 1-year "show me" type contract to see if he can keep doing it.

-There was a special teams guy a few years back that got busted for selling pot out of his car. Forget who, but was a fringe-type player, and was cut.

-Think Kevin Faulk got popped for smoking weed at a concert a while back. Was away from the team while rehabbing an injury (his knee, maybe?).

That's really about all I can think of off the top of my head. that it's that short a list, and minor stuff, is already an improvement over most teams. Something like 35 NFL arrests over the 2013 off-season (only 20-something unique players, though, that one idiot got arrested like 3 times in a day or so!). Players come from some rough backgrounds (violence or just poor), so can be tough to plop them in a situation where they get rewarded for it with more money than they can handle, seedy elements around them, and then need to turn the violence on and off at game time.

Patriots certainly aren't saints, but think they do better than most at keeping their heads down. As they've gotten further and further away from a Superbowl ring, and keep looking at the window for Brady and Belichick getting smaller and smaller, they've been straying a little from their principles at times to try and get another ring. Means taking more chances on character guys because they have the big game skills, drafting guys that slipped because of it, or trying to make reclaimation projects out of guys with problems, hoping a short contract and change of scenery will pull them through. Had SOME success with that, but it's not perfect.

And like I said, one of the bigger pieces of that media-created Patriots Way thing is just not running your mouth, letting your play speak for itself. They don't trash talk, they don't do a lot of media interviews, and frankly sound like programmed robots when they do. 'One game at a time, do what I can to help the team, etc.'

Much of this really came around when they had guys like Vrabel, Bruschi, and McGinest on the team. THOSE were the kinds of players they are thinking of when they spout off about this myth. Some of that ethic is still there, but not as strong as it was then.
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Old June 28 2013, 05:21 PM   #253
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
All jokes aside, I really don't ever want to hear the phrase "the Patriot way" ever again. The media would have you believe that the Patriots are this model to be emulated of players that play the game unselfishly and play the game the "right way." Here is a list of those players from the last few years that make that phrase bullshit.
I'm sorry, but if you were trying to make a point, you failed miserably. Sure there were better examples, but you picked really poor ones to try and stay with the names people would recognize. Let's look:

1. Cory Dillon (Lots of problems elsewhere but kept his nose clean in NE for the most part)
So your example is...what? That he was a dink with the Bengals, but fine with New England? No problems I'm aware of there, and won a ring his first year. Worst example you could have picked, as he's the type of player they've been chasing since. Problem with other team, came to the Patriots and 'saw the light', model citizen in New England. Every reclamation project since has been trying to recapture that success.

Not really an example of a Patriot at all, was he? Played in what, a couple games max? And they cut him for being a lazy slob, which is kinda the opposite of your example.

Again, what are you trying to show? Right up until his expiring contract made him a bit crazy/selfish, he was a model citizen here. Nothing I'm aware of for problems, and great on the field. Weird that you're actually listing some of the Pats' better redemption stories to try and damn them

Finally got one, although a bit obvious. While there's plenty of undesirable parts of his past that could have been a warning, that's true of a LOT of NFL players. If you're suggesting anyone should have known he'd murder someone...? Up until this shitshow, looked like he'd put some of that behind him, but more coming out now suggests that maybe not as behind him as we thought. Sad, especially given his talent. And even then, Pats cut him before convicted of anything, and without considering that it would have been better cap-wise to wait and fight the bonus money first, so even in the best example, there's still some of the principle you're telling us doesn't exist. Would have been just as easy to suspend him and let it play out, they cut him 90 minutes after he was arrested, and turned him away earlier in the week when he tried to show up and practice.

5. Tebow (Good clubhouse guy, hard worker, but still a huge media distraction)
Now you're just desperate and ran out of names/ideas. Even your example of why he shows how the Patriots Way doesn't exist just lists his good qualities May suck as a QB, but pretty much the shining example of the rest. Also, since he's been on the team like 3 weeks and never played a game, pretty lazy to even mention him. Media distraction is a low bar, and even then, MUCH less of one than when he was on the Jets' roster.

They don't have these mythical saintly standards for their players. They are well coached and they have arguably the best QB to ever play the game leading their team. They will win consistently until Brady can't go anymore. If Bellicheck thought he could win with Michael Vick a few years ago he would have been making conjugal visits on a weekly basis. They love to make fun of teams like the Jets and Cowboys for being a media circus but then troll the world by signing Tebow.
No, they like to make fun of the Jets because they suck, are horribly coached and managed, and they run their fucking mouths about being the best, going to beat everyone, etc. while ass-fumbling their way to a middling record every year. If you do nothing but talk shit constantly, and can't back ANY of it up, not going to be thought of well. Their own fault, maybe just STFU until they actually accomplish something?

And yeah, Belichick hates the Jets, has some personal stakes there. And definitely seems to enjoy taking players the Jets can't figure out and showing them what they missed out on, just to tweak the Jets. Danny Woodhead being the most recent example. Maybe Tebow will turn into something, maybe Belichick just took him in to tweak the Jets, or maybe he's just competing for a 3rd QB spot and you're making too big a deal out of it for someone who won't be on the gameday roster. Or the Pats will turn him into a crazy-good TE or RB or something off the wall like that, and show everyone that Tebow is just fine, but they were using him wrong But probably just the 3rd QB thing, if he makes the final roster at all...

In general, yeah the Patriots' Way thing IS a little nonsense, and media-created, but you showed with the examples you picked that there really aren't many incidents to pick from, and you went back a decade to try and find some. I mean, you could have found a few minor things, but they were to bit-players that no one really knows, so don't make the splash you wanted.

You'd have had a better argument if you tried to pick on the Florida players that the Pats have signed lately. Media made a big deal about the Urban Myers connection to the Pats, and how great they were doing there, but in the past few drafts there, we got:

-Chad Jackson: complete bust

-Jermaine Cunningham: PED suspension last year, otherwise was his first decent year since we got him, likely bust

-Aaron Hernandez: murder, cut

- Brandon Spikes: Pretty good player, but PED suspension and had his dick out on a ChatRoulette incident

Maybe Florida players are our problem?
Wow. Relax. The things you are arguing with me about are things I already agree with you about. I'm talking about the media image that ESPN tries to cram down our throat. What you perceive as a knock to your beloved Patriots was in fact a knock on the media. In fact if you dig deep what you will see is a compliment to the organization.

The media consistently praises the organization for getting hard working stand up guys that for the most part stay out of trouble which make the Patriots this model franchise. They lambast the Jets for being a media circus for signing Tebow but somehow its ok with the Patriots. The only thing I am saying is that this myth of getting hard working blue collar players that keep their nose clean simply isn't true. Hoodie and Kraft don't give a shit about character or the baggage the player brings to a team. (THAT IS A GOOD THING) They care about filling key spaces. All of the players I listed above have a prior history of being a distraction, lack of work ethic or simply being a diva. Belichick has the ability to look past that stuff and revive a players career. The only one that he really couldn't fix was Haynesworth.

List revisited.

Dillon: Revived career and helped the team win a Super Bowl. Off-field and clubhouse issues were nonexistent with the Patriots.

Moss: Labeled a diva on other teams but was a large part of the Patriots season that almost would have been perfect sans helmet catch by Tyree. He had a setback at the end but the Patriots didn't cater to him so he was gone.

Tebow: Remains to be seen.

Haynesworth: The guy is just lazy. Didn't really work out. No fault of the Patriots.

Hernandez: Prior issues but became a huge weapon for Brady in recent years. He was cut (no-brainer)

The only thing I am saying is that there is this myth that the Patriots set themselves apart from the other teams in the NFL by having these lofty standards when the real key to their success is the best head coach and QB in the game. The "Patriot Way" isn't a team full of Reggie White's. It is a team full of players that get a second chance with a coach that knows how to fit them into a position where they will be successful.

It's possible I presented this badly but it's also possible you had a knee jerk reaction to somebody "bad mouthing" your team. The high praise for the Patriots by the media is well deserved but often misrepresentative of what exactly it is that makes them a perennial contender. There is a "Patriot Way" it's just evolved past that of the Super Bowl teams of the mid 2000's.
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Old June 28 2013, 05:45 PM   #254
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Eh, fuck the Patriots.

No evidence needed. Just fuck'em.
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Old June 28 2013, 06:09 PM   #255
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Re: NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

tighr wrote: View Post
Eh, fuck the Patriots.

No evidence needed. Just fuck'em.
Well I don't always root for them but they are usually pretty good TV. I like to watch the greats in sports and Brady definitely qualifies. Football in general is going to miss Brady and Manning when they are gone.

I'm a Cowboys fan and I would saw off my left arm to have a GM/HC combo like Kraft/Belichick.
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