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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 25 2013, 10:21 PM   #16
Metryq
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Re: Security or Marines?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Well we all know how tetchy goverments can get over classified information *cough* *cough*
Yeah, that's why they gave the project a name like Genesis, instead of something completely ambiguous. There must be an entry in the TVtropes site for the way top secret projects in movies and TV always have highly relevant and revealing names. Project "invisibility" or "ultimate weapon" wouldn't draw any attention. No.

Edit: Of course, it's under Code Name.
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Old June 25 2013, 10:25 PM   #17
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Re: Security or Marines?

Metryq wrote: View Post
Yeah, that's why they gave the project a name like Genesis, instead of something completely ambiguous. There must be an entry in the TVtropes site for the way top secret projects in movies and TV always have highly relevant and revealing names. Project "invisibility" or "ultimate weapon" wouldn't draw any attention. No.
I don't know that Genesis was a bad choice, as most would assume it had something to do with the Bible. That it actually involved the creation of new life is something of a coincidence.

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Old June 26 2013, 03:58 AM   #18
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Re: Security or Marines?

Sran wrote: View Post
Crazyewok wrote: View Post
But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.
How? Kirk and Sulu were Starfleet officers. The guards were also in Starfleet. Whatever their assignment may have been, they were still subject to the same chain of command that anyone else would be.
Kirk and Sulu aren't in their chain of command. They answer to their commanding officer, not Kirk or Sulu.
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Old June 26 2013, 03:01 PM   #19
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Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Kirk and Sulu aren't in their chain of command. They answer to their commanding officer, not Kirk or Sulu.
Nonetheless, Kirk and Sulu still held higher ranks than they did. The guards had no business ordering them around anymore than someone serving on another vessel would. Each posting has its own chain of command, but Starfleet as a whole functions because of an overall chain of command that applies to everyone. Enlisted personnel do not order around flag officers under any circumstances. The guards were out of order.

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Old June 26 2013, 07:02 PM   #20
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Re: Security or Marines?

Sran wrote: View Post
But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.
How? Kirk and Sulu were Starfleet officers. The guards were also in Starfleet. Whatever their assignment may have been, they were still subject to the same chain of command that anyone else would be. If an admiral- a highly decorated admiral, no less- asks to visit his friend in a prison cell, there's no reason for a guard to give him attitude about it.
First of all, we can't be sure they are Starfleet personnel. The uniforms are quite different. I think it is more likely they are civilians employed by Starfleet, just as the US Deprtment of Defense employs non-military police and security personnel for its facilites.

Second, militaries have long recognized the "authority of a sentry," that is, if you are ordered to guard a certain place or thing, you have authority over anyone who enters the space you are responsible for, regardless of their rank, until your CO says otherwise. Can you imagine what would it would be like if anyone of superior rank could come along and change a brig guard's orders?
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Old June 26 2013, 07:52 PM   #21
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Re: Security or Marines?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
First of all, we can't be sure they are Starfleet personnel. The uniforms are quite different. I think it is more likely they are civilians employed by Starfleet, just as the US Deprtment of Defense employs non-military police and security personnel for its facilites.
That was my impression. That they were civilian law enforcement. The man who arrested McCoy said he was "Federation Security" which always made me think it was the UFP version of the CIA or FBI.
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Old June 26 2013, 08:22 PM   #22
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J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Can you imagine what would it would be like if anyone of superior rank could come along and change a brig guard's orders?
I can, but who says Kirk and Sulu were doing anything of the sort? Kirk come to visit McCoy. If he wasn't supposed to be there, the guards should not have allowed him inside the cell and should instead have asked him to wait until McCoy was moved to the appropriate psychiatric facility.

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Old June 26 2013, 09:43 PM   #23
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Re: Security or Marines?

It was my understanding that guards, who are assigned to guard a certain thing or person, have pretty much absolute authority over anyone trying to intrude upon what's guarded. Even if the Admiral of the Fleet showed up and demanded access to the prisoner, the guards wouldn't let them in without proper ID and orders.

(Like "Mr. Adventure" - he was doing his duty, asking where Kirk's orders and IDs were, but Uhura locked him in the closet so he couldn't stop her)
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Old June 26 2013, 09:48 PM   #24
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Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It was my understanding that guards, who are assigned to guard a certain thing or person, have pretty much absolute authority over anyone trying to intrude upon what's guarded. Even if the Admiral of the Fleet showed up and demanded access to the prisoner, the guards wouldn't let them in without proper ID and orders.
I understand the point you're making, but that still doesn't address the issue of why they were copping an attitude about it. Both Kirk and Sulu presented valid ID when entering the facility. Authority or no, one need not act like a jerk merely to prove that he's master of his domain.

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Old June 26 2013, 09:49 PM   #25
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Re: Security or Marines?

Maybe the guards just have a very low tolerance for small talk. I can sympathize with them if that's the case.
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Old June 26 2013, 09:52 PM   #26
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Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Maybe the guards just have a very low tolerance for small talk. I can sympathize with them if that's the case.
Maybe. I still don't see why the taller guard needed to resort to name-calling. As far as I'm concerned, Sulu was justified in beating the tar out of him.

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Old June 26 2013, 10:40 PM   #27
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Re: Security or Marines?

STIII: Starfleet MPs with silly hats.

The guys in STV during the Nimbus III rescue mission are probably Marines.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:21 PM   #28
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Re: Security or Marines?

Sran wrote: View Post
I can, but who says Kirk and Sulu were doing anything of the sort? Kirk come to visit McCoy. If he wasn't supposed to be there, the guards should not have allowed him inside the cell and should instead have asked him to wait until McCoy was moved to the appropriate psychiatric facility.
Sorry, I messed up the quoting. I meant to address the statement that "Kirk and Sulu still held higher ranks than they did. The guards had no business ordering them around anymore than someone serving on another vessel would. [...] Enlisted personnel do not order around flag officers under any circumstances. The guards were out of order."
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Old June 26 2013, 11:31 PM   #29
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Re: Security or Marines?

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
Enlisted personnel do not order around flag officers under any circumstances. The guards were out of order.
No, the guards were right. Remember what I said: they have absolute authority over whatever or whoever it is they are guarding. If anyone barges in and demands access without proper orders/ID, the guards can bar them, even if it's the highest of flag officers.
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Old June 26 2013, 11:32 PM   #30
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Re: Security or Marines?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It was my understanding that guards, who are assigned to guard a certain thing or person, have pretty much absolute authority over anyone trying to intrude upon what's guarded. Even if the Admiral of the Fleet showed up and demanded access to the prisoner, the guards wouldn't let them in without proper ID and orders.
Pretty much so. I worked in some secure facilities while in the Army. If you weren't on the access roster, you weren't getting into the building no matter how many stars you had on your collar. Period.
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