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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 26 2013, 06:11 PM   #31
Belz...
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Oh, and you've read and seen every single one to know that? Hmm?
That argument cuts both ways, you know ?

And no, I haven't. But I think most people would agree that most movie, if they were to see them all, would be crap to them. Also, I think most people would agree that the majority of entertainment is poorly written. It doesn't mean it's not entertaining, it's simply a fact that people with real writing talent are rarer than people with less talent; this is also true for any other talent. I don't see how my statement could be controversial.

So, I'll just file your post under "100% opinion," too.
You may not. It's certainly partly subjective, but it's not "100%" anything. You just disagree, but that doesn't make it whatever you want to label it.
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Old June 26 2013, 06:13 PM   #32
Cinema Geekly
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

foxhot wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote:

''I think you're going to need to post some evidence that the folks who comprise "modern audiences" have more limited IQs than you do before any of this can be taken seriously.''


What better place to start than the weekly top-grossing US films for any given week since, say, 1990? You'll find SOME quality and a lot of something else...
Yes because the vast majority of movie goers go and see a movie for fun to get away from their daily lives for a few hours are basically idiots for wanting to have a good time and don't care about Box Office, franchises, acting, or critical reception. They just want to have a good time so they are morons. IDIC LIVES~!
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Old June 26 2013, 07:09 PM   #33
M'Sharak
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
foxhot wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote:

''I think you're going to need to post some evidence that the folks who comprise "modern audiences" have more limited IQs than you do before any of this can be taken seriously.''


What better place to start than the weekly top-grossing US films for any given week since, say, 1990? You'll find SOME quality and a lot of something else...
I think you'll find that's been pretty much constant throughout the history of film or any creative art.
"Ninety percent of everything is garbage." - Theodore Sturgeon (1956)
And that's 100% opinion.
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
And that's 100% opinion.
Not really. Most movies, novels, comics, plays, etc. have been low-quality for the last few thousand years.
Oh, and you've read and seen every single one to know that? Hmm?

What is and isn't "low-quality" is subjective, although general consensuses are possible among certain crowds in some cases. So, I'll just file your post under "100% opinion," too.
All one need do is to look at records of works which are known to have been created during any period—Renaissance, Classical, Baroque, Golden Age of SF, German Expressionist cinema, you name it—and compare to which of those works are still known, appreciated, and mentioned with respect ten years later, or fifty years, or two hundred fifty, or a thousand years later. The proportion of forgettable to memorable remains remarkably steady through all periods, and belies the notion that any marked drop in quality is apparent after, say, 1990 (nor any other milestone arbitrarily selected for the purpose of advancing a wholly specious argument.)

Observation. Not unsupported "Get off my lawn"-ery.
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Old June 26 2013, 09:17 PM   #34
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
The proportion of forgettable to memorable remains remarkably steady through all periods, and belies the notion that any marked drop in quality is apparent after, say, 1990 (nor any other milestone arbitrarily selected for the purpose of advancing a wholly specious argument.)
Right. There's a reason the Romans/Greeks coined the term "Deus Ex Machina" for a type of lazy writing.
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Old June 27 2013, 04:48 AM   #35
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

Belz... wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Oh, and you've read and seen every single one to know that? Hmm?
That argument cuts both ways, you know ?

And no, I haven't. But I think most people would agree that most movie, if they were to see them all, would be crap to them. Also, I think most people would agree that the majority of entertainment is poorly written. It doesn't mean it's not entertaining, it's simply a fact that people with real writing talent are rarer than people with less talent; this is also true for any other talent. I don't see how my statement could be controversial.

So, I'll just file your post under "100% opinion," too.
You may not. It's certainly partly subjective, but it's not "100%" anything. You just disagree, but that doesn't make it whatever you want to label it.
I may and I will. It's 100% opinion. Your opinion doesn't become fact because you think it's a fact. The "argument" doesn't "cut both ways" because I never claimed to know about "everything." No one can. To make such a sweeping statement that "90% of everything is garbage" is in and of itself a useless, or garbage, attempt to say something definitive.

Continue to think what you want to think about "everything," but please do not try to say that your thoughts equate to objectivity.

And before you cry "off topic," I'm done talking to you about this. I don't want to see someone else's thread affected by this.

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
I think you'll find that's been pretty much constant throughout the history of film or any creative art.
"Ninety percent of everything is garbage." - Theodore Sturgeon (1956)
And that's 100% opinion.
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post

Not really. Most movies, novels, comics, plays, etc. have been low-quality for the last few thousand years.
Oh, and you've read and seen every single one to know that? Hmm?

What is and isn't "low-quality" is subjective, although general consensuses are possible among certain crowds in some cases. So, I'll just file your post under "100% opinion," too.
All one need do is to look at records of works which are known to have been created during any period—Renaissance, Classical, Baroque, Golden Age of SF, German Expressionist cinema, you name it—and compare to which of those works are still known, appreciated, and mentioned with respect ten years later, or fifty years, or two hundred fifty, or a thousand years later. The proportion of forgettable to memorable remains remarkably steady through all periods, and belies the notion that any marked drop in quality is apparent after, say, 1990 (nor any other milestone arbitrarily selected for the purpose of advancing a wholly specious argument.)

Observation. Not unsupported "Get off my lawn"-ery.
And that's why I mentioned that a general consensus can be had among certain crowds about certain works. That still doesn't mean that just because something isn't "remembered" that it isn't good or great. Also opinions can change over time. IIRC, Van Gogh wasn't considered really "great" until after he died.

And besides, the quote said ninety percent of "everything," and that scope goes beyond art (which includes film/television) and literature. There's absolutely no way this guy could know that, and I think there's more than a good chance that it's not true. I don't think it's humanly possible to "observe" 90% of "everything," not to mention 100%.

All I know is that 90% of everything in my life and in my past experiences isn't garbage. Frankly, it just sounds like this man is miserable (or at least pessimistic). And you know what they say about misery and company...

But, you and Belz can be "right" if you want to. I'm leaving this alone as an effort to help preserve this thread and the conversation the OP might be trying to have.
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Old June 27 2013, 05:18 AM   #36
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Silversmok3 wrote: View Post
...modern audiences have neither the attention span or the IQ required to address a deep plot..
I think you're going to need to post some evidence that the folks who comprise "modern audiences" have more limited IQs than you do before any of this can be taken seriously.

BTW, Star Trek The Motion Picture does not feature a "deep and sophisticated" plot.

I like this
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Old June 27 2013, 05:47 AM   #37
M'Sharak
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
<snip>

And besides, the quote said ninety percent of "everything," and that scope goes beyond art (which includes film/television) and literature. There's absolutely no way this guy could know that, and I think there's more than a good chance that it's not true. I don't think it's humanly possible to "observe" 90% of "everything," not to mention 100%.

All I know is that 90% of everything in my life and in my past experiences isn't garbage. Frankly, it just sounds like this man is miserable (or at least pessimistic). And you know what they say about misery and company...
It's apparent that the name of the man quoted means nothing to you. The quote itself is fairly well-known in certain circles (including foxhot's, I don't doubt) but absent understanding of its context the quote probably won't carry the meaning which was intended.

So it goes.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
But, you and Belz can be "right" if you want to. I'm leaving this alone as an effort to help preserve this thread and the conversation the OP might be trying to have.
Promises, promises.
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Old June 27 2013, 06:09 AM   #38
Spock/Uhura Fan
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
<snip>

And besides, the quote said ninety percent of "everything," and that scope goes beyond art (which includes film/television) and literature. There's absolutely no way this guy could know that, and I think there's more than a good chance that it's not true. I don't think it's humanly possible to "observe" 90% of "everything," not to mention 100%.

All I know is that 90% of everything in my life and in my past experiences isn't garbage. Frankly, it just sounds like this man is miserable (or at least pessimistic). And you know what they say about misery and company...
It's apparent that the name of the man quoted means nothing to you. The quote itself is fairly well-known in certain circles (including foxhot's, I don't doubt) but absent understanding of its context the quote probably won't carry the meaning which was intended.

So it goes.

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
But, you and Belz can be "right" if you want to. I'm leaving this alone as an effort to help preserve this thread and the conversation the OP might be trying to have.
Promises, promises.
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Old June 27 2013, 11:21 AM   #39
Belz...
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I may and I will. It's 100% opinion.
NO, it's NOT. And the fact that you think it is is your opinion. Saying that it's 100% opinion doesn't make it so.

Your opinion doesn't become fact because you think it's a fact.
Did you even READ my post ? I suggest you do so again before you reply.

To make such a sweeping statement that "90% of everything is garbage" is in and of itself a useless, or garbage, attempt to say something definitive.
It's simply an observation that the mass of production is low-quality. For every 1000 movie made in a year, how many quality ones do you expect there will be ? Oh, give me your 100% opinion please.

Continue to think what you want to think about "everything," but please do not try to say that your thoughts equate to objectivity.
I never said so. Do not misrepresent what I said if you want to be taken seriously.

And before you cry "off topic," I'm done talking to you about this. I don't want to see someone else's thread affected by this.
Where did I say that, AGAIN ? Stop making stuff up about me.

But, you and Belz can be "right" if you want to.
How noble of you, refusing to address your errors.
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Old June 28 2013, 04:30 AM   #40
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

^ Keeping my promise.
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Old June 28 2013, 10:42 AM   #41
Belz...
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Re: The Challenge of Trek 3

I can appreciate that.

However it's always a bit frustrating to leave a discussing hanging.
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