RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,198
Posts: 5,346,022
Members: 24,604
Currently online: 575
Newest member: LanCo96

TrekToday headlines

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

IDW Publishing Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

A Baby For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

Klingon Beer Arrives In The US
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Star Trek: Prelude To Axanar
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Abrams Announces Star Wars: Force For Change Sweepstakes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 141 19.11%
A 160 21.68%
A- 99 13.41%
B+ 82 11.11%
B 58 7.86%
B- 27 3.66%
C+ 40 5.42%
C 38 5.15%
C- 24 3.25%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.36%
F 35 4.74%
Voters: 738. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 25 2013, 04:52 AM   #4366
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

You can find "a couple of dozen good movies" to find from yesteryears, but lots of people won't watch them. OK, call such people shortsighted, but fact is, tastes change from any generation to another. People thought the majorty of movies from the 30s to be old fashioned in the 60s. So on and so on. I can compare a good drama, action movie, or scif movie from today and they'll hold up well to similar movies from 1965 or 1955 and likely are much better.

On a similar note, many people think the last 5-10 years of TV are better than any "golden age" of television as well.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 05:54 AM   #4367
throwback
Captain
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Recognizing that people change tastes, and that this change in taste can result in works being lost, individuals and institutions since antiquity have selected works for preservation, so that they wouldn't be lost. The oldest known authoress, Enheduanna, had her works preserved in this manner. In our modern era, the Library of Congress has created the National Film Registry, which has films from 1891 to 1999. Sadly, none of the ST films is on that registry, but two Star Wars films, A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are on that list.
throwback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 06:17 AM   #4368
CommishSleer
Fleet Captain
 
CommishSleer's Avatar
 
Location: Way back of nowhere
View CommishSleer's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

RAMA wrote: View Post
You can find "a couple of dozen good movies" to find from yesteryears, but lots of people won't watch them. OK, call such people shortsighted, but fact is, tastes change from any generation to another. People thought the majorty of movies from the 30s to be old fashioned in the 60s. So on and so on. I can compare a good drama, action movie, or scif movie from today and they'll hold up well to similar movies from 1965 or 1955 and likely are much better.

On a similar note, many people think the last 5-10 years of TV are better than any "golden age" of television as well.

RAMA
I watched the remake of 'Flight of the Pheonix' the other day and while its OK its nowhere near as good as the 'old fashioned' original.
And I couldn't watch more than 30 minutes of the 'Andromeda Strain' remake.
Still modern audiences may like the better special effects and the more attractive cast better in the remade movies. I can't understand it - probably too old.
CommishSleer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 07:14 AM   #4369
throwback
Captain
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I feel that the older films had a stronger focus on characterization with special effects used to enhance the story. I feel that this has been lost in the recent films.

I think that sometimes having a small budget forces people to make decisions judiciously. For instance, I was watching Mr. Plinkett's review of the Star Wars prequels. He mentioned that the people who made the original films had to be careful with the light saber effects due to the costs involved with each battle. This kind of constraint forces writers to be creative. Now, with CGI and larger budgets, a film maker can have as many light saber battles as they went, even when the battles don't enhance the story. Now, films I feel are bloated by this excess.

I liked the original "Andromeda Strain" and the "Flight of the Phoenix".
throwback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 07:23 AM   #4370
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
But this is NuKhan, so while similar to the Khan of the Prime universe, this movie distorted his traits and attributes. He now really is a superhuman, who does the whole cliched villain gets captured thing and his emotions are now supercharged and electrified like pretty all of the main characters. Which pretty much sacrifices subtle nuances, gravitas and presence for the new Trek Kahn villain.
Khan.

For a while there, I thought you were deliberately misspelling it "Kahn" to make a point about STiD's villain, but your first sentence got it right twice.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 07:37 AM   #4371
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
But it seems that you're not allowed to dislike something that's flawed.
I disliked ST V very much. My friends and I had to collect rumours during its production to create a "special sealed section" for a newsletter and we couldn't believe what we were hearing. The film came out and there were very few surprises. Unfortunately. But even though we almost hated the movie, we had the best time watching it!

A few years later, along came "Galaxy Quest" - and we laughed all over again. Some were even the same gags!
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 10:15 AM   #4372
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Billj wrote:
So we shouldn't compare the actions of one Khan vs. another because that makes the older stuff look just as silly and inconsistent?
'Just as silly and inconsistent' as what? Nu-Khan? What have you proven there? That the person who didn't like it was right?

Opus wrote: View Post
If you like one movie for the same reasons you dislike another, it's game for discussion.
It is but I'm not sure it means anything. I think it's more meaningful if discussions of the film discuss the film and not lines from an episode in 1968.

Movies are more than the sum of their parts and criticism of certain aspects in isolation will always appear arbitrary and hypocritical. Even the most reasoned arguments will have flaws somewhere if we're allowed to mine 40+ years of material for for that tiny example which backs up our point.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 10:53 AM   #4373
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
In our modern era, the Library of Congress has created the National Film Registry, which has films from 1891 to 1999. Sadly, none of the ST films is on that registry, but two Star Wars films, A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are on that list.
Are they insane ? Star Wars is a trilogy !

I think that sometimes having a small budget forces people to make decisions judiciously.
And genius needs to be restrained. Look at what Spielberg did with Jaws. I don't think the movie would've been so great if everything had gone according to plan.
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 12:40 PM   #4374
Ln X
Fleet Captain
 
Ln X's Avatar
 
Location: The great gig in the sky
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
I feel that the older films had a stronger focus on characterization with special effects used to enhance the story. I feel that this has been lost in the recent films.

I think that sometimes having a small budget forces people to make decisions judiciously. For instance, I was watching Mr. Plinkett's review of the Star Wars prequels. He mentioned that the people who made the original films had to be careful with the light saber effects due to the costs involved with each battle. This kind of constraint forces writers to be creative. Now, with CGI and larger budgets, a film maker can have as many light saber battles as they went, even when the battles don't enhance the story. Now, films I feel are bloated by this excess.

I liked the original "Andromeda Strain" and the "Flight of the Phoenix".
This. Characterisation used to be more thought-out now it works on the most basic level. STID's ending is atypical of this. Spock goes mad when best friend dies, Spock goes on a vengeful rampage to track down Khan, Spock tries to beat the living daylights out of Kahn. I laughed at the end because it half reminded me of Tommy Wiseau's The Room when Johnny smashes everything up in house in a fit of jealous rage.

STID was beating everyone over the head in the ending with 'this is what angry people do'. In those ten or so minutes Spock became fully human, at the very least STID could have tried to do the ST 09 root of Spock becoming 'emotionally compromised', hell then they could have squeezed in a scene with Uhura/Spock that would have been rather meaningful.

Khan uses the Vengeance to beam his crew off of the Enterprise, departs on some sort of shuttle with his crewmen in tow, plus Kahn remotely sets the Vengeance to crash into Starfleet HQ. Then we could wrap it all up with Khan contacting Spock, we could have some meaningful exchange, Spock comes to terms with his loss and feels deeply disillusioned with Starfleet and angry towards admiral Marcus (because it was Marcus who attacked the Enterprise NOT Khan).

And with that you could end it there, there is an obvious sequel in the works and it would have a far more powerful ending. Surely we can all agree that the ending was rather anti-climatic and as Homer Simpson said 'wraps it up in a nice little package'?
__________________
Star Trek: The Approaching Shadow...

Caption contest: DS9
Ln X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 12:57 PM   #4375
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

As no criticism is complete with some obligatory hypocrisy, if we are to look at TOS and all the times that Spock lost his rag wasn't it always a bad thing and shocking? Here, we're expected to cheer along with Spock as he repeatedly punches a dude in the face.

As a stand alone movie, it works within the context but I think more could have been done than a mere fist fight that ends when Uhura just turns up and shoots him anyway.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 01:07 PM   #4376
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Except possibly for TWOK, "characterization" in oldTrek movies consisted mostly of the traditional cast taking turns doing their familiar schtick. Mac-and-cheese.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 02:21 PM   #4377
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
Characterisation used to be more thought-out now it works on the most basic level.
I strongly disagree. In TOS, Spock, Kirk and McCoy do not have individual full personalities: they complete each other, and form what is basically TOS' main character. With the exception of Scotty, no other character has any amount of development.

In TNG, very few characters are developed: Picard, Data, Worf. The others fall short of anything interesting. Only DS9 makes any real effort with its characters, something Voyager apparently forgot. ENT isn't much better, with only three characters getting any real screen time.

So it isn't new that Trek doesn't put enough focus on character.

STID's ending is atypical of this.
Did you mean typical ?
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 04:05 AM   #4378
Agenda
Fleet Captain
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

nuSpock has jumped the shark. I don't really care what they do with the character now.
Agenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 10:46 AM   #4379
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Jumped the shark in what way ?
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 02:37 PM   #4380
CommishSleer
Fleet Captain
 
CommishSleer's Avatar
 
Location: Way back of nowhere
View CommishSleer's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Jumped the shark in what way ?
Comic 22
Spock is a player!
Shame on you Spock! Shame on you!

I'm guessing on the shark thing!

CommishSleer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
benedict cumberbatch, grading & discussion, jj abrams

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.