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Old June 26 2013, 01:55 AM   #16
Sran
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
On the other side of the coin, Commodore Stocker had reached that rank without ever commanding a ship, and apparently not even serving on one, during his entire career.
Which seems hard to believe. I'm sure there were Starfleet officers who served in capacities other than exploration. But it's hard to believe that someone could rise so high in the chain of command without at least some ship-bound duty. OTOH, captain is just a rank like any other. It doesn't have to mean that someone commanded ships or troops in battle.

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Old June 26 2013, 01:57 AM   #17
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Which presumably Barclay wasn't doing. So unless midget musketeer Riker was going to somehow break out of the holodeck and rampage around the ship, nothing Barclay was doing in there needed to be restricted by security.
He did have the finest sword in all the holodeck.

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Old June 26 2013, 02:03 AM   #18
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Sran wrote: View Post
solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
On the other side of the coin, Commodore Stocker had reached that rank without ever commanding a ship, and apparently not even serving on one, during his entire career.
Which seems hard to believe. I'm sure there were Starfleet officers who served in capacities other than exploration. But it's hard to believe that someone could rise so high in the chain of command without at least some ship-bound duty. OTOH, captain is just a rank like any other. It doesn't have to mean that someone commanded ships or troops in battle.

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Unfortunately, it probably wasn't realistic at all, just a way for the script of The Deadly Years to dumb down an authority figure while allowing Kirk to show what an awesome Captain he was.
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Old June 26 2013, 02:12 AM   #19
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, it probably wasn't realistic at all, just a way for the script of The Deadly Years to dumb down an authority figure while allowing Kirk to show what an awesome Captain he was.
Makes me wonder about someone like Phillipa Louvois from "The Measure of a Man." She held the rank of captain but had no command responsibility aside from her role as a JAG officer. Was her entire career like that, or did she serve in Starfleet in some other way? If she held a law degree, it's possible she could have been a communications officer or ship's historian.

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Old June 26 2013, 02:30 AM   #20
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Sran wrote: View Post
solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, it probably wasn't realistic at all, just a way for the script of The Deadly Years to dumb down an authority figure while allowing Kirk to show what an awesome Captain he was.
Makes me wonder about someone like Phillipa Louvois from "The Measure of a Man." She held the rank of captain but had no command responsibility aside from her role as a JAG officer. Was her entire career like that, or did she serve in Starfleet in some other way? If she held a law degree, it's possible she could have been a communications officer or ship's historian.

--Sran
You don't need to command a ship to hold the rank of Captain. Its just the next rank after Commander. No doubt McCoy held the rank of Captain for a while, before becoming an Admiral. Louvois probably spent her entire career as a JAG officer. MA says she headed the twenty-third sector office of the Judge Advocate General office. Her command would be that office. With an organization as vast and diverse as Starfleet there are probably officers who have served little time aboard a ship.
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Old June 26 2013, 02:39 AM   #21
-Brett-
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

When I saw the thread title I thought for sure it was about all those corrupt admirals and captains. But Barclay? He seems able to do his job well enough. Better than most, really.
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Old June 26 2013, 02:45 AM   #22
Sran
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

^Well, with him it's all the other stuff.

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Old June 26 2013, 03:26 AM   #23
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Why wouldn't Barcalay pass a psychiatric exam?

If social disorders prevented you from working important jobs we wouldn't have any software engineers. His social phobias don't interfere with his job. Or rather, they did for a while in Hollow Pursuits but then he fixed the situation. The people who would fail psychiatric exams are the people with aggression problems.
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Old June 26 2013, 03:39 AM   #24
Charles Phipps
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, it probably wasn't realistic at all, just a way for the script of The Deadly Years to dumb down an authority figure while allowing Kirk to show what an awesome Captain he was.
I dunno, I could easily see him as a Naval Base Commander equivalent.

As for psychological exams, I believe the ship's counselor is always on the bridge in TNG era because they realize that with the body horror-mutation-mad gods they need someone to make sure the Captains don't go insane at any moment.
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Old June 26 2013, 08:40 AM   #25
MacLeod
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

In TOS we saw Flag Officers who wore Red and Blue if I'm not mistaken. A Flag Rank is a rank like any other, so perhaps person performed well enough in their duties to be promoted time and again.

And didn't Stocker wear a Red Uniform implying a career path in operations/engineering? So perhaps he spent his tenure in the lower ranks onbaord starbases/planet side facilities/ship yards etc.. Starfleet is made up of more than just starships
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Old June 26 2013, 01:38 PM   #26
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, it probably wasn't realistic at all, just a way for the script of The Deadly Years to dumb down an authority figure while allowing Kirk to show what an awesome Captain he was.
I dunno, I could easily see him as a Naval Base Commander equivalent.

As for psychological exams, I believe the ship's counselor is always on the bridge in TNG era because they realize that with the body horror-mutation-mad gods they need someone to make sure the Captains don't go insane at any moment.
Sorry, I didn't mean that it was unrealistic that he could reach that rank without serving on a ship. As others have pointed out, it's possible for non-crew officers (such as medical doctors, chaplains, etc) to reach Captain or above without having commanded or served on a ship.

Stocker was written to be completely clueless as to the abilities of starships (and to regard the violating of the Romulan Neutral Zone to not be a big deal!), yet he was a Starbase Commander.

Starbase 10 was the major Federation facility on the Romulan Border, so Stocker should not only have been fully briefed on the Romulans and the Neutral Zone (in fact, any ships in the sector would have had to go through Stocker to request permission to enter the Zone), he would also be responsible for the deployment of Starfleet forces throughout the sector.

The problem being, had he been written as competently as Stocker should have been, the episode would have been a hell of a lot more dull!

He just fits in the standard pattern seen in several episodes.

"Kirk, I've been put in charge, so do as I say!"

"That's a bad idea!"

"Do it anyway Kirk!"

"See, told you it was a bad idea!"

"Quick Kirk, get us out of this!"

"Okay, done, sorted!"

"Great Kirk, you're really brilliant and I'm an ass!"

Makes good drama, but also makes the Starfleet brass appear to be incompetent in their recruiting/promotion process.

Back to Barclay though, as I said, he's had a few performance issues, but his competence when he gets his mind on the tasks easily outweighs these issues.

Did Finney from Court-Martial regularly pass his psych evaluations? I can't remember if it was mentioned, not seen the episode in a while.
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Old June 26 2013, 01:44 PM   #27
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Makes good drama, but also makes the Starfleet brass appear to be incompetent in their recruiting/promotion process.
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Old June 26 2013, 02:16 PM   #28
Crazyewok
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Well the fact that fool get high ranks seems no diffrent than today.

Its not what you know its who you know.
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Old June 26 2013, 05:36 PM   #29
cannicks
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

psychiatry is evil.

hopefully the Federation would have realised that.
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Old June 26 2013, 07:45 PM   #30
QuarkforNagus
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Re: Does Star Fleet not run psychiatric examinations on its recruits?

Sure, the holodecks are just for recreation. That doesn't mean that one cannot abuse recreational things...

He obviously has an unhealthy addiction to the holodeck, when prevents him from being able to relate to real members of the crew. And for the intents and purposes that the crew relies on each other to be healthy, both physically and mentally, I find it hard to believe that a captain wouldn't restrict his access to the holodeck.

And OF COURSE he would fail a psychiatric examination! Working on a star ship requires both working in and living in a social situation, constantly. You don't get many chances to be alone and your ability to not only devise solutions but to convince your coworkers to trust your judgement with their lives is vitally important.

I feel terrible for anyone who's ever had to work with that guy. What a loser...
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