RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,630
Posts: 5,427,383
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 566
Newest member: Rom

TrekToday headlines

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 24 2013, 08:19 PM   #541
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

I confess, I never much cared for Section 31 being behind Admiral Cartwright. It doesn't quite fit their style, to me.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 08:28 PM   #542
Paris
Fleet Captain
 
Paris's Avatar
 
Location: In the future's past
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
I confess, I never much cared for Section 31 being behind Admiral Cartwright. It doesn't quite fit their style, to me.
What would you say their style is? To me, they always seem like they are portrayed as capable of doing whatever is neccesary to protect the Federation as a whole...at least in their own eyes. Peace with the Klingons was not something that they thought was a good thing for the UFP. They, thusly, did what they needed to do. Do you mean the plan itself didn't feel like them?
Paris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 08:40 PM   #543
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Paris wrote: View Post
What would you say their style is? To me, they always seem like they are portrayed as capable of doing whatever is neccesary to protect the Federation as a whole...at least in their own eyes. Peace with the Klingons was not something that they thought was a good thing for the UFP. They, thusly, did what they needed to do. Do you mean the plan itself didn't feel like them?
Oh, don't get me wrong, Section 31 is nefarious on top of nefarious and was very clearly created to be BADDDDD guys. However, taking on Admiral Cartwright's scheme to them didn't quite fit for me since I'd imagine them as the sort of guys who don't believe in anything resembling a fair fight. Admiral Cartwrights scheme is working with the Klingons to have the two sides go all out at each other.

Somehow, when I think of S31 I think they'd prefer to let the Klingons die out well before invoking military solution. Then again, S31 has undoubtedly been host to however many lunatics they've recruited and has undoubtedly changed many times over the centuries.

I think the Phase Cloak, Baku Field, and so on are all good for Section 31 but I would have liked Admiral Cartwright to be on his own path. Basically, he's early-Kirk from "Errand of Mercy" and disgusted they're negotiating with barbarians.
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 11:18 PM   #544
Stoek
Commander
 
Location: Stoek
View Stoek's Twitter Profile
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
I confess, I never much cared for Section 31 being behind Admiral Cartwright. It doesn't quite fit their style, to me.
Well there's nothing to suggest that they didn't have plans within plans. Personally I figured Cartwright for acting on his own initiative and 31 saw the value of giving him a little help. If only so that there'd be a handy fall being.
Stoek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 03:40 AM   #545
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Stoek wrote: View Post
Quite honestly I have never liked "Colonel West" and quite honestly given what we saw go on and what was invented in DS9, I personally just dismiss him as a Section 31 agent who they fed the President a line of bull about since I figure that your average civilian in the 23rd and a half century is as knowledgeable about Starfleet and its inner workings as most of us would be about today's military, plus I imagine that any government leader relies on experts to brief him and if you spend too much time doubting those same experts the job is going to get infinitely more difficult than it already is. In this case sadly President Ra Ghoretti got scammed.
But if he's a 31 agent, he would have to be Starfleet. As far as I know, pretty much all of 31s people we've seen so far have been part of Starfleet.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 03:51 AM   #546
ATimson
Rear Admiral
 
ATimson's Avatar
 
Location: Andrew Timson
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Are there any vendors selling ePub versions that are matching Amazon's price ($6.83)? B&N and Kobo aren't, and Sony doesn't have it listed yet.
__________________
Andrew Timson
===============
"Niceness is the greatest human flaw, except for all the others." - Brendan Moody

"...don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido
ATimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 04:10 AM   #547
Stoek
Commander
 
Location: Stoek
View Stoek's Twitter Profile
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

JD wrote: View Post
Stoek wrote: View Post
Quite honestly I have never liked "Colonel West" and quite honestly given what we saw go on and what was invented in DS9, I personally just dismiss him as a Section 31 agent who they fed the President a line of bull about since I figure that your average civilian in the 23rd and a half century is as knowledgeable about Starfleet and its inner workings as most of us would be about today's military, plus I imagine that any government leader relies on experts to brief him and if you spend too much time doubting those same experts the job is going to get infinitely more difficult than it already is. In this case sadly President Ra Ghoretti got scammed.
But if he's a 31 agent, he would have to be Starfleet. As far as I know, pretty much all of 31s people we've seen so far have been part of Starfleet.
Well since so far as I know it's never been explicitly established that 31 ONLY draws from 'Fleet it personally makes best sense to me that while they largely take their personal from their because it's convenient that they do employee a handful of civilian agents.

Alternate explanation... It's an artifact caused by Hypertime.
Stoek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 04:57 AM   #548
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

We know for a fact that Section 31 draws agents from outside of Starfleet. In "Extreme Measures," it was established that one of its agents was a member of Federation President Jaresh-Inyo's Cabinet.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 05:01 AM   #549
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

^ Although that person could still have been ex-Starfleet.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 05:16 AM   #550
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Although that person could still have been ex-Starfleet.
Possibly, but nothing requires it. And then there was Federation Ambassador Aubin Tabor of Ullia in Section 31: Rogue, who was most definitely not a Starfleet officer.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 11:59 AM   #551
Jarvisimo
Commander
 
Jarvisimo's Avatar
 
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

And the genitically engineered doctor in the DS9 S31 novel? And there is no evidence that either of Mack's main S31 agents - L'Haan and the human whose name I've forgotten - are from S31. And Koval - Tal Shiar chairman and S31 sympathiser.
__________________
At the high point of our intimacy, we were just 0.01cm from each other. I knew nothing about her. Six hours later, she fell in love with another man.
Jarvisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 03:42 PM   #552
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Here's my review of the novel! Great read!

http://unitedfederationofcharles.blo...ederation.html


A Choice of Futures is an interesting novel. In a weird way, I'd say it's as close to a Tom Clancy novel as you're going to find in Star Trek. Only, instead of Jack Ryan, we have Archer and instead of John Clarke we've got Trip. For those of you who have never touched a Tom Clancy novel in your life, what I'm saying is that it functions on two levels: a political one as well as a spy one. In fact, Christopher Bennett does Tom Clancy up one by having a third level of pure Star Trek exploration.

Christopher Bennett takes advantage of the Enterprise timeline's relatively close time period with "our" future to make things somewhat familiar. The newly formed Federation has many problems with it--ones very similar to ones from history. Without a Prime Directive in place, people are calling for the UFP to become the Alpha Quadrant's police-men and Starfleet's leaders are eager to play the role (all except for Admiral Archer). Comparisons with the USA are inevitable but there's also allusions to the USSR and even the Crusades.

As an audience, we know Starfleet is going to become a scientific and exploratory body dedicated to peaceful first-contact. Here, however, it's obvious the majority of the UFP's leaders are seeing something more like NATO. After both the Xindi and Romulan War, this is an understandable position.

Indeed, I'm honestly not sure it's wrong despite several potentially disastrous situations being averted due to the former Enterprise crew's relative pacifism. Part of my problem with The Undiscovered Country is repeated here: it's hard to have a message of peace and understanding when there's a third party working to bring about war. Of course, I loved The Sum of All Fears and TUC is my favorite Star Trek movie so I can't complain too much.

For those who are interested in jumping onto the Enterprise novel bandwagon but haven't purchased previous books, you won't have to in order to keep up. It's an excellent starting point to the series with even the strangest element (Trip is alive and a member of Section 31) being explained. All one really has to know is the Romulans have been defeated and everyone is settling into an uncomfortable new alliance.

The changes to the characters feel natural and appropriate. Archer is now an Admiral, adjusting to it better than Captain Kirk or Picard would have, while T'Pol has moved onto her own command. Malcolm Reed is also in line for his own ship, a promotion which I think is long overdue. I wasn't too happy with the continued half-relationship between Trip and T'Pol but that's more or less inevitable given their circumstances.

Christopher Bennett's talent for "arc welding" comes into play here as he attempts to address a large number of the issues leftover from the series. Without spoiling anything, he brings back several one-shot enemies and shows their reaction to the changing state of the galaxy. Prior to the Federation, with the exception of the Klingons, it was more or less a lawless universe. Watching that change is a fascinating sight to see. I especially liked learning more about the mysterious Gray-like aliens from "Silent Enemy."

Weirdly, an element I really appreciated from the book was a retcon regarding the Orions. One of the most annoying changes done by Enterprise, undoubtedly done for changing sensibilities, was their transformation of the misogynist slaver group into a female-controlled society of slavers. That, to me, was actually more offensive than the original. Here, Christopher combines the two in such a way as to leave their role as corrupt vice peddlers intact.

There's some really good moments in the book, including tying in a TOS character's history to early Starfleet, but I felt the book could have been improved by changing some of its focus. The Captain Reed section is completely divorced from the main plot and didn't feel thematically consistent with the rest. Aside from learning to accept alien life-forms (and keep their secrets), I felt it could have been any old episode of Star Trek. I would have much preferred a greater focus on the political angle of the newly formed Federation.

Overall, I found A Choice of Futures to be a very satisfying read.The characters are spot-on, the situations are interesting, and the storytelling is excellent. I also love the way Christopher Bennett effortlessly weaves in story elements from a variety of sources to make the episodic setting of Star Trek feel more interconnected and alive. Honestly, though, I would have enjoyed more examination of the monumental nature of their new government. A person on the street's perspective on the new Federation would have been appreciated.

9/10
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 04:11 PM   #553
Patrick O'Brien
Captain
 
Patrick O'Brien's Avatar
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Just got my copy. Cannot wait to dive in!
__________________
The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Patrick O'Brien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 04:19 PM   #554
Charles Phipps
Commander
 
Charles Phipps's Avatar
 
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Seriously guys, can't wait to read the rest of the series!
__________________
Check out the United Federation of Charles:
http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
Charles Phipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 04:20 PM   #555
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Coming July 2013: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE — RISE OF THE FEDERATION

Nice review, Charles, thanks! Although maybe you should repost it in the official review thread (and vote in the poll there); this is more the general announcement/news thread for ROTF.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.