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Old June 24 2013, 06:54 PM   #286
GSchnitzer
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
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I'm trying to think of what people will be wanting to and expecting to see.

Although there are some who are undoubtedly going to use this "walk through" and say: "I will be extremely disappointed if this walk-through game neglects to include that yellow square that you can see at the door jamb behind Doctor M'Benga for a few frames in 'That Which Survives'."

My hunch is, if I were to play the odds, would be that more people would say "Let's check and see if they remembered to put in Lieutenant Galway's mirror from "The Deadly Years".
But then such fans, you mentioned last, would also notice that there is no intercom / alert panel next to the exam bed, and neither was the Jefferies Separator there in "The Deadly Years", yet (and neither did the intercom panel in the doorframe to the bedroom exist yet, before it could be covered up for Season Three).

In the deck plan drafts for Deck 7 I did now inevitably run into the same kind of problem. For a number of reasons I was unable to place the Season Three Office into either the medical ward from "The Way to Eden" or "Turnabout Intruder", because of the different content of the "multi-purpose rooms".

In "Wink of an Eye" we clearly see in the background the Season Three office (because of the scary skull painting over the office's nurse desk). However, the view from the lab into the corridor and the multi-purpose room vis-a-vis reveals a table with a viewscreen which doesn't match the content of the aforementioned multi-purpose rooms.
The only multi-purpose room I got left was the (unseen) one from "The Deadly Years" and therefore the Season Three office is apparently the same one we saw in Season Two, except that the lizard near the doorframe has gone and instead we have a certificate or something on the opposite side and the "scary skull" further back above the Nurse desk.
So which office of Dr. McCoy should be represented, the one from Season Two or the Season Three one after the redecoration (since the 1970's photo novels featured the Season Two office rather often, the Season Three version had a "fresh" feel to it, IMHO)?

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
I guess Donny will be deciding if he wants to insert stuff that he thinks people will want to or expect to see, or if he wants, instead, to dress the sets merely as we last left them four decades ago.




Absolutely, that's his creative choice alone. But since he does know all the subtle differences to make it screen-accurate, mixing elements from different seasons could make it appear to look like he didn't know.
  • Once elements are mixed this will invite accuracy aficionados to criticize Donny for not being accurate and I wonder how one could come up with a satisfying explanation that wouldn't sound like an excuse.
  • Feature the sets as they were last seen and none of this will ever happen as the "last seen argument" is rather terminal and no one could seriously find fault with that, IMHO.
In my deck plan project I'm constantly torn between what I believe to be expectations versus what is accurate. I have decided to favor accuracy, and not just only because it's the solution that at the end of the day hopefully raises less questions to answer than the other option. But this is just my 0.02 $ and other approaches have other merits, of course.

Bob

P.S.
Another good thing would be that Donny could still illustrate the Season Two (or Season One) sets at a later time.
"Ooooo! I really hope I get to see a close up of that stuffed salamander not being mounted on the wall. The accuracy of not having that taxidermy salamander there would be delightful and fun to experience. I really hope it's absent!"

I think no one (well, hardly anyone), will notice or care--much less take an absolute delight in the absence of stuff they've encountered in three years of TOS--regardless of any seeming anachronisms. The notion that all these numerous slightly variant permutations of all these rooms we encounted during three years of the show actually all co-existed contemporaneously with one another is, frankly, kind of goofy--but maybe that's just me.

I would put in all kinds of stuff, regardless of chronology--but that's probably just also me. Like I do on our real Phase II sets, I would be mindful of not loading up every room with too much crap, trying to catch every permutation that we saw--like a wall communicator on each side of the door jamb between the Examination Room and the Ward Room. Also, there are indded things that are contradictory, so some things would undoubtedly have to go. But I would throw out contradicatory things based on their interestingness, not based on their chronology. I think most people would neither know nor care "when" a room is from.

I'm aware that we wouldn't want McCoy (or anybody) to look like a hoarder--with every possible variant and item being represented and jam-packed into one place; things could look pretty busy. But I would resist the temptation to have an INT. KIRK'S QUARTERS that has Mike Minor astronomical artwork on the walls and then also have a back-up INT. KIRK'S QUARTERS that just has boring trapezoidal wall decorations. It's not like the I'd want to see the Enterprise rooms as we last saw they in whaterver episode in which they made their final appdearance. I think in many instances, the interestingness and entertianment value of the sets diminished over time--especially during the third season. I don't know if the end of the third season is actually what every one would want to see.

As a side note, I guess if one were really ambitious, one could make software that would let users "select the stardate you would like to see represented in this room" to capture all temporal variants. So you could see a first season briefing room, or a second, or a third with the click of a button.

You're welcome, Donny. I just created job security for you for the next five years. (Don't forget the vents on the floor of the bridge in the turbo-lift alcove from when the sets were still over at the MGM-Culver studio.)
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Last edited by GSchnitzer; June 24 2013 at 08:51 PM.
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Old June 24 2013, 07:44 PM   #287
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Come to think of it...speaking of the salamander and other things in McCoy's office, I would love to see those alien skulls he had scattered about. Those were truly cool.
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Old June 24 2013, 07:47 PM   #288
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
I think most people would neither know nor care "when" a room is from.
I think it depends on the target audience you want to reach (one of my favorite subjects in a couple of recent threads), but foremost the artist has to feel good about what he is doing, regardless of the outcome.

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
As a side note, I guess if one were really ambitious, one could make software that would let users "select the stardate you would like to see represented in this room" to capture all temporal variants.
Did you just provide an idea for the gaming experience? Some time travel story elements and looking at the exam room's details tells you what stardate it is / what time frame you are in.

Bob

@ 137th Gebirg

I agree, but I'm afraid these were mostly filmed from the side so it must be a nightmare just to try to portray these accurately.
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Old June 24 2013, 07:50 PM   #289
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Hmm, what IS the story behind that "lizard" on the bulkhead? Both "in story" and particularly the real life Desilu production?

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old June 24 2013, 08:09 PM   #290
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
As a side note, I guess if one were really ambitious, one could make software that would let users "select the stardate you would like to see represented in this room" to capture all temporal variants.
Did you just provide an idea for the gaming experience? Some time travel story elements and looking at the exam room's details tells you what stardate it is / what time frame you are in.
I have actually always wanted to put in a "flashback" mission that took place on the ship during the Pike era. Now that would be worth the extra work.

Also, I'd rather not go into too much debate about little things like the mirror from The Deadly Years. I'm going to have to pick and choose some of the smaller details to satisfy both the majority of fans and the "accuracy aficionados". After all is said and done, I want this to remain a fun project for myself and the fans of TOS.

Redfern wrote: View Post
Hmm, what IS the story behind that "lizard" on the bulkhead? Both "in story" and particularly the real life Desilu production?l
That's something I would like to know as well!
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Old June 24 2013, 08:39 PM   #291
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
I have actually always wanted to put in a "flashback" mission that took place on the ship during the Pike era. Now that would be worth the extra work.

Also, I'd rather not go into too much debate about little things like the mirror from The Deadly Years. I'm going to have to pick and choose some of the smaller details to satisfy both the majority of fans and the "accuracy aficionados". After all is said and done, I want this to remain a fun project for myself and the fans of TOS.
I sat down and watched The Cage twice yesterday (both cuts) and the alternate cut of WNMHGB from the last disc of the TOS blurays and I would love to see Pike's ship fleshed out. The more subdued color scheme, the nifty Captain's quarters on deck two, and one of my favorite Trek uniforms...that would be incredibly neat.

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Old June 24 2013, 08:52 PM   #292
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
I have actually always wanted to put in a "flashback" mission that took place on the ship during the Pike era.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:03 AM   #293
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

By the way, Robert Comsol, here's a shot I found today from By Any Other Name in which that funny-legged table from sickbay appears, this time in the rec room.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...namehd0911.jpg

Actually, looks like it was a more or less permanent fixture in the rec room set. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...bleshd0450.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...timehd0211.jpg
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Old June 25 2013, 01:37 AM   #294
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
By the way, Robert Comsol, here's a shot I found today from By Any Other Name in which that funny-legged table from sickbay appears, this time in the rec room.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...namehd0911.jpg

Actually, looks like it was a more or less permanent fixture in the rec room set. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...bleshd0450.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...timehd0211.jpg
It looks like four out of seven.

Yes, in "The Naked Time," "Charlie X," "The Trouble with Tribbles," and "By Any Other Name."

No, in "The Conscience of the King," "The Alternative Factor," and "Journey to Babel."
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Old June 25 2013, 01:46 AM   #295
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Donny wrote: View Post
By the way, Robert Comsol, here's a shot I found today from By Any Other Name in which that funny-legged table from sickbay appears, this time in the rec room.

Actually, looks like it was a more or less permanent fixture in the rec room set.
It looks like four out of seven.

Yes, in "The Naked Time," "Charlie X," "The Trouble with Tribbles," and "By Any Other Name."

No, in "The Conscience of the King," "The Alternative Factor," and "Journey to Babel."
Wow. Did the rec room only appear in seven episodes? I know that in Season 3, there was the "upgraded" rec room seen in And The Children Shall Lead and the deleted scene in Elaan of Troyius, but I seem to remember the early version appearing much more! Crazy.

Good to know for when I get around to building it, since my reference screen cap hunt can now safely be narrowed down to only 7 episodes!
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Old June 25 2013, 01:56 AM   #296
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Not aware of any official back story on the lizard, but Paul Starkey (Trek BBS reg Starkers) wrote "Good Luck Charm" which explains it pretty darn well: http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/22...dluckcharm.htm
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Old June 25 2013, 02:35 AM   #297
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Donny wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Donny wrote: View Post
By the way, Robert Comsol, here's a shot I found today from By Any Other Name in which that funny-legged table from sickbay appears, this time in the rec room.

Actually, looks like it was a more or less permanent fixture in the rec room set.
It looks like four out of seven.

Yes, in "The Naked Time," "Charlie X," "The Trouble with Tribbles," and "By Any Other Name."

No, in "The Conscience of the King," "The Alternative Factor," and "Journey to Babel."
Wow. Did the rec room only appear in seven episodes? I know that in Season 3, there was the "upgraded" rec room seen in And The Children Shall Lead and the deleted scene in Elaan of Troyius, but I seem to remember the early version appearing much more! Crazy.

Good to know for when I get around to building it, since my reference screen cap hunt can now safely be narrowed down to only 7 episodes!
Rec Room article here:

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=2825
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Old June 25 2013, 11:24 AM   #298
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
Not aware of any official back story on the lizard, but Paul Starkey (Trek BBS reg Starkers) wrote "Good Luck Charm" which explains it pretty darn well
Beautiful fan story. Now, we just want to learn why Starfleet's ship surgeons have this strange hobby of collecting (apparently animal) skulls (compare redressed doctor's office aboard the Defiant).

Come to think about that, that's probably what they are, "Terran" animal skulls because that would have been cheapest for the actual production. Thus, if we were able to figure out to which animal a certain skull belongs, we would know what these skulls in McCoy's wall shelf actually are and what they should look like...

And this could also explain why they put the "scary skull" poster over the Season Three Office desk, maybe to convey the illusion the ones in the wall shelf are alien too.

Bob

P.S. Those additional screencaps with the table are great, Donny. Unfortunately they didn't always attach the thinner table leg to the wall.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:47 PM   #299
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

Potemkin_Prod wrote: View Post
Not aware of any official back story on the lizard, but Paul Starkey (Trek BBS reg Starkers) wrote "Good Luck Charm" which explains it pretty darn well: http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/22...dluckcharm.htm
An amusing lil' snippet. It certainly has that kind of ineraction we might have witnessed in a "classic" episode.

But I still want to learn of the real life production reason. Who suggested it, where the thing was found and why did that person advocate the reptile.

I admit that for a time, I wondered if I merely mistook something else for a "lizard". It seemed such a random thing to display within a medical facility, surely it was something else, possibly an abstract sculpture that, due to the comparitively low resolution of of older CRT based TVs receiving broadcast signals degraded by distance and atmospheric interference, just looked like a freakin' lizard to me. Well, the DVDs and the Blu-Ray played upon HD monitors certainly discredited that notion. It really IS a bleedin' lizard!

Okay, okay, I've gone on enough about the silly thing. I'll stop. But if Guy Gardner (the BBS member here, not the DC character) has a cart blanc license to be weird, why can't I?

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old June 25 2013, 02:45 PM   #300
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Re: TOS Enterprise Interiors -- Unreal 3 Engine

On second thought, is this actually a lizard or a baby crocodile / Gorn?

Bob
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