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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.30%
A 161 21.58%
A- 101 13.54%
B+ 82 10.99%
B 58 7.77%
B- 27 3.62%
C+ 40 5.36%
C 38 5.09%
C- 25 3.35%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.83%
Voters: 746. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 25 2013, 12:14 AM   #4336
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post

Insurrection and Nemesis were riddled with problems, but even they in my opinion far outshine this movie.
This pretty much ends the discussion.

Thread on The Wrath of Khan:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216757
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Old June 25 2013, 12:16 AM   #4337
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Go back and watch some Star Trek movies with as critical an eye as you seem to have with this one and see how much you enjoy them.
Will he then be allowed to not like STID?
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Old June 25 2013, 12:22 AM   #4338
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Go back and watch some Star Trek movies with as critical an eye as you seem to have with this one and see how much you enjoy them.
Will he then be allowed to not like STID?
Why do you get testy when people defend this film? Anyone can like or dislike any film they chose. When they put their reasons up on a public message board, then they are inviting folks to discuss those reasons.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:27 AM   #4339
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post

Insurrection and Nemesis were riddled with problems, but even they in my opinion far outshine this movie.
This pretty much ends the discussion.

Thread on The Wrath of Khan:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216757
I wasn't talking about TWOK I was talking about STID.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:32 AM   #4340
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post

I wasn't talking about TWOK I was talking about STID.
I know which movie you were talking about. I just thought maybe you should go see how many holes and bits of illogic the fans of this board were able to spot in The Wrath of Khan.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:36 AM   #4341
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I just thought maybe you should go see how many holes and bits of illogic the fans of this board were able to spot in The Wrath of Khan.
Urgh, I don't even agree with half of what he's saying, but why should he? What's the best that can happen?

He doesn't find any but is then continually told he's wrong.

Or he finds a bunch and then ends up disliking both films.

Brilliant, well done.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:40 AM   #4342
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post

Or he finds a bunch and then ends up disliking both films.
Even with the plot "difficulties", I've loved the movie for thirty years. Why can't a person love something that's flawed?
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Old June 25 2013, 12:53 AM   #4343
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
I know exactly how Spock took it
Well your comments in this thread indicate that you don't.

seeing ones planet be destroyed is several orders of magnitude worse than seeing ones best friend die.
Ever heard of the expression "the straw that broke the camel's back" ?

Well ST: Into Darkness is a steaming pile of boiling emotions, illogical actions and threadbare plots.
So it's realistic, then.

It doesn't explain too well about Admiral Marcus' reasons for becoming this dictator, so he wants a war fine.
Sure it does. We've discussed that at length.

Spock is way too emotional.
By what metric ?

I know TOS Kirk broke the rules from time to time, but those were under exceptional circumstances, yet Into Darkness just portrays Kirk as this hothead who recoils at following orders.
You might have missed it in the first movie, but he had a very, very different childhood from Prime Kirk.

Kahn was good, but boy did he make some dumb decisions!
Then I'll say this for him, he's consistent.

Hell Odo didn't cry once, but you could always tell when that character was in pain. But no, NuTrek Spock is illogically emotional.
Yeah but we're talking about Odo, here. Vulcans have much more violent emotions than humans.

Didn't humans attack those Klingons on Qo'noS?
How would the Klingons know Starfleet was even there ? Plausible deniability.

Right now Star Trek has become like Star Wars
Oh, I wish people would stop making that parallel. The new Trek movies are NOTHING like Star Wars. Action doesn't equal Star Wars.

and the franchise is going to wither away and die because of that.
Actually it almost withered away and died for the reverse reason.

Lastly Into Darkness felt like a very watered-down version of Star Trek.
It felt like TOS, actually. Quite a bit.

This is not reinventing Star Trek, instead this is killing the franchise
Please do not confuse your appreciation for a movie with its level of success. The box office revenues disagree with you.

And finally two more points: Starfleet feels too much like an army and those caps really suck!
Starfleet has always felt like the military, and they've had caps before. They just never wore them. Hell, there was one in the very first pilot.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:57 AM   #4344
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Why can't a person love something that's flawed?
Of course they can. But it seems that you're not allowed to dislike something that's flawed.

I'd just like the movie to be discussed on its individual merits as opposed to continually wheeling out old Trek to discredit one's opinion*

For a franchise lauded for its ignorance of what came before people sure seem quick to re-establish ties to the prime universe when it suits then.



*This applies to people who both like and dislike the movie, btw.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:02 AM   #4345
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

If you like one movie for the same reasons you dislike another, it's game for discussion.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:04 AM   #4346
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post

I'd just like the movie to be discussed on its individual merits as opposed to continually wheeling out old Trek to discredit one's opinion.
So we shouldn't compare the actions of one Khan vs. another because that makes the older stuff look just as silly and inconsistent?

BillJ wrote:
Khan misreading the people of the 23rd century isn't exactly a creation of Star Trek Into Darkness.
If you can make the claim that Khan in the latest movie isn't very smart and makes mistakes and claim that makes the latest movie bad. Then it's fair to bring up the fact that those characteristics are consistent with the way the character has been portrayed in the past.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:05 AM   #4347
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
Those torpedoes though...[...] But actually the explosives have been removed and in their stead replaced with Kahn's peoples, so was that part of Kahn's plan or was Marcus trying to help Kahn?
Well it doesn't help that you didn't pay attention while watching the movie. One fuel cell was removed and replaced with cryotubes. Not the warhead: a fuel cell.

And that's the other problem. Kahn was brought out of cryogenic stasis by admiral Marcus, but Kahn is like 250 years behind the times. So why use Kahn to build the latest in new and deadly advanced weaponry?
They actually explained that, too. Did you really see the movie in a theatre ?

But if Marcus was that intent on bumping off Kahn and starting a war, then why didn't he check these advanced torpedoes?
I think Marcus knows they're in there. It's just an ironic way to get his way.

Nah I haven't seen TWOK
How can you not have seen TWOK ? That's... your right, of course, but if there's one Trek movie you have to see, it's that one.

STID has nothing to offer if you start thinking about it and if you could detach yourself from the incessant action scenes and weird plot twists whilst watching it.
I'm not sure you should assume to know that people must agree with you if they would only be logical.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:07 AM   #4348
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I know which movie you were talking about. I just thought maybe you should go see how many holes and bits of illogic the fans of this board were able to spot in The Wrath of Khan.
I have viewed the thread, and again most of these holes and bits of illogic can be reasonably explained away, without new holes and more illogical things cropping up. STID is something different entirely, it's more rife with major flaws/holes/illogical things:

1. Kirk being clearly too immature and hotheaded to be captain during the first quarter of the movie.

2. Spock being too emotional.

3. Spock/Uhura.

4. The 82 torpedoes and all the shenanigans concerning them.

5. Can't McCoy use the blood from one of the 82 augments (Kahn's people) to save Kirk?

6. Admiral Marcus doesn't check his special torpedoes.

7. A shuttlecraft would have been easier and safer to travel between the Enterprise and the Vengeance.

8. Why would Kirk and Kahn go in space suits with thrust packs and travel at high speeds through an area of space cluttered with debris?

9. The Klingons didn't go to war with Starfleet despite the infraction Kirk made.

10. How was Scotty's vessel allowed to go inside the Vengeance?

11. Starfleet conducts a top-secret and high security meeting in a room rather unsafe and prone to an attack. I mean if Kahn really is that dangerous couldn't they have found a more secret place to conduct that meeting (one where they won't so ridiculously exposed).

12. Kahn lives despite crashing in two ships.

13. The Enterprise lands under the sea on that M-class world without the natives seeing anything.

14. Super volcanoes can destroy a planet even though this volcano was not even on par with Earth's supervolcanoes.

15. Cold fusion, which is a thermonuclear reaction, can now cool an entire volcano AND freeze magma and the contents of the magma chamber.

16. The Vengeance needs a lot more crew for a ship of that size as systems break down.

17. If Kahn has this special transwarp transporter technology, why couldn't he use it again to beam off Kronos?

18. There was no real threat in that scene with Carol Marcus and McCoy since the missile had no actual warhead.

19. How do advanced torpedoes effect the Enterprise's warp core if they are merely stasis chambers in disguise?

20. Scotty resigning does not make any sense, if he is the most experienced engineer then wouldn't he endangering lives by being away from the Enterprise should a problem with the warp core actually happen due to those torpedoes?

21. Admiral Pike lets Kirk off on a whim.

22. Kirk was never promoted back to a captain.

23. There was an American flag at that memorial scene, shouldn't that be the UFP flag if it Starfleet property?

24. If Kahn wanted to blow up that Section 31 weapon's facility, why didn't he beam in the bomb with his special transporter?

25. Section 31, being so thorough and watchful, fail to screen or notice a suspicious device.

26. Maybe Admiral Marcus could carry out a coup and take over the Sol system, but he couldn't possibly take over the entire Federation.

27. A distinct lack of aliens.

28. If Spock is emotionally compromised just after the destruction of his planet and duffs up Kirk, then why would seeing Kirk die elicit such a response from Spock?

29. Kirk barely knew Pike, so why did he so profoundly mourn for the admiral when he died?

30. If Kahn wanted revenge on admiral Marcus, why didn't he take him out during that meeting on Earth?

31. And if the 2nd terrorist attack was part of Marcus' plan, wasn't he cutting things a little finely being caught up right in the centre of the attack?

32. Carol Marcus in her underwear serves no purpose whatsoever.

33. Kirk always makes Spock redundant by going on virtually every away mission and always undermines Spock's authority by taking matters into his own hands.

34. Giving 33, why would Spock care so much about his captain?

35. This movie can't go 2 minutes without plot twists or action scenes.

36. Spock screaming Kahn.

37. Kirk's death was emotionally meaningless when they already planted the fact that Kahn's blood can revive dead animals and humanoids.

38. If Kahn really valued his people, why didn't he rescue them first with his transporter technology and then carry out his revenge? Surely carrying out revenge is easier with 82 more augments at your side?
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Old June 25 2013, 01:13 AM   #4349
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
33. Kirk always makes Spock redundant by going on virtually every away mission and always undermines Spock's authority by taking matters into his own hands.
You know, you're entitled to your opinion, but have you even watched the original Star Trek? How can Kirk leading landing parties be considered wrong in-universe?
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Old June 25 2013, 01:22 AM   #4350
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
30. If Kahn wanted revenge on admiral Marcus, why didn't he take him out during that meeting on Earth?
He tried and failed. Kirk foiled him, for one.
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