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Old June 24 2013, 11:06 PM   #136
Pavonis
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

I didn't miss the point, I just don't believe it.

I'm expecting a twist of some sort, some revelation about the Volm's motives that hasn't been revealed yet. In a story like Falling Skies, I'd expect help to come from above, as the Volm did, but I wouldn't expect that help to be so completely humanitarian.

Maybe the Volm really are just out to free the species that the Espheni conquer. Until the show is over, though, I'll be awaiting a plot twist related to the Volm. The characters keep pointing out that no one but the Volm know anything about the "weapon" that is being built in Charleston. Why keep bringing it up if it's not more than it seems to be?

Weaver and Tom had a discussion about how Churchill and Roosevelt may not have wanted to work with Stalin against Hitler, but they had to do so in order to win the war. So are the writers dropping hints that the Volm may be more like Stalin than like Roosevelt (assuming humans are equivalent to Great Britain - beleaguered but fighting valiantly but still needing help)? Will humans end up under the thumb of a Stalin-like dictator from the Volm?

ETA - President Hathaway asked why the Volm were fighting the Espheni, but Cochise merely answered with the reason he was fighting. Basically sidestepping the question by giving his personal motive, but not his people's motive.
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Old June 24 2013, 11:13 PM   #137
Admiral2
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
In Risk Australia (,New Guinea and Indonesia) is a continent called "Australia".


In Real Life, Australia is a continent called "Australia." Has been for years.

You get additional troop bonus reinforcements at the beginning of each turn if you successfully hold a continent. (I just counted.) Europe has 6 boarders to Green land, Africa and Russia. You'd basically need landmines to defend this place properly. Australia might be bottled in, but on the other hand AUSTRALIA IS BOTTLED IN. One way in or out. Siam. It's also half the size. Which means it's easy to completely conquer in your first turn if you have a foothold and then easy to hold so that you get your reinforcement bonus unless someone chooses to stick 10 horses in Siam, but the reinforcement bonus is 2/5ths the size of Europe so why bother unless you're being a prick and talking smack... And really if you can't talk smack while playing Risk, what's the fucking point?
Agreed, so I'll leave Risk to you and stick with Monopoly.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I didn't miss the point, I just don't believe it.

I'm expecting a twist of some sort, some revelation about the Volm's motives that hasn't been revealed yet. In a story like Falling Skies, I'd expect help to come from above, as the Volm did, but I wouldn't expect that help to be so completely humanitarian.

Maybe the Volm really are just out to free the species that the Espheni conquer. Until the show is over, though, I'll be awaiting a plot twist related to the Volm. The characters keep pointing out that no one but the Volm know anything about the "weapon" that is being built in Charleston. Why keep bringing it up if it's not more than it seems to be?

Weaver and Tom had a discussion about how Churchill and Roosevelt may not have wanted to work with Stalin against Hitler, but they had to do so in order to win the war. So are the writers dropping hints that the Volm may be more like Stalin than like Roosevelt (assuming humans are equivalent to Great Britain - beleaguered but fighting valiantly but still needing help)? Will humans end up under the thumb of a Stalin-like dictator from the Volm?

ETA - President Hathaway asked why the Volm were fighting the Espheni, but Cochise merely answered with the reason he was fighting. Basically sidestepping the question by giving his personal motive, but not his people's motive.

I'm with you on this one.

Cochise told a great, schmaltzy, romantic story about fighting this war that could - and should, if this show doesn't want to get boring - be revealed as complete elephant snot in some future moment of truth. Too good to be true usually is too good to be true, and that's the alarm bell ringing for me as far as the Volm are concerned.
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Old June 24 2013, 11:28 PM   #138
Mister Fandango
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I didn't miss the point, I just don't believe it.
That's not what your post implied. Well, the first part anyway.

As for ulterior motives, I have no doubt there are some. But his speech was about him fighting for a flower poetically. The actual speech was that they were fighting them because they stole their home from them, and that maybe one day if they completely destroy them, they'll be able to return to their home. Until that day arrives, they're aiding all the other worlds and civilizations they come across in the hopes that they won't have to go through what the Volm went through.

And despite knowing that there is likely some kind of ulterior motive, there's nothing very suspect about that reasoning aside from one's own paranoia. It's one we, ourselves, could likely make if we were in the Volm's position.

ETA - President Hathaway asked why the Volm were fighting the Espheni, but Cochise merely answered with the reason he was fighting. Basically sidestepping the question by giving his personal motive, but not his people's motive.
No, he was speaking for his people as a whole, using the flower as his personal motivation in order to give the story more oomph.
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Old June 24 2013, 11:31 PM   #139
Pavonis
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Speaking poetically is a great way to hide the fact that the speaker is actually saying nothing.

If the Volm are so powerful they can defeat the Espheni, why haven't they taken their homeworld back? Why is Cochise on Earth? Are the Volm out to kill every Espheni that exists?
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Old June 24 2013, 11:41 PM   #140
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Speaking poetically is a great way to hide the fact that the speaker is actually saying nothing.
Except he didn't say nothing. He explained, quite eloquently, his people's motivation for what they're doing. Which was all he was asked.
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Old June 24 2013, 11:58 PM   #141
Pavonis
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

What he explained was his motive, not the Volm's motive. Besides, how high do we expect Cochise to rank in the Volm military? He has about 20 people under him. He's probably a scout leader, not a general or a president.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:06 AM   #142
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

<smacks forehead>

Of all the problems this show has, this isn't one. You're just refusing to see it for what it is, instead insisting on coloring it with your interpretation of what he said. Which wasn't what he said, except on the surface.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:24 AM   #143
Pavonis
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Hey, we both agree there are ulterior motives, so where is our disagreement?
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Old June 25 2013, 12:39 AM   #144
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
instead insisting on coloring it with your interpretation of what he said.
pot. kettle. black.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:49 AM   #145
Mister Fandango
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

You're right.

Cochise didn't say that his people were fighting to exact revenge on the Ashvendi, to help prevent other worlds and civilizations from suffering their same fate, and hope to one day return home (or create a new one; which might very well be the ulterior motive) after they have finally defeated them.

He didn't say that at all.

Nope, just fighting for a flower. Because, like, the flower makes him immortal or something. I dunno.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:56 AM   #146
Pavonis
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Look, I don't doubt that Cochise told the truth about his motivations for fighting. I just doubt that his motive is his people's motive. Cochise might be a good guy, but are all the Volm good guys? He sidestepped the President's question. Why did he do that, if not to hide what the Volm's motives really are?
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Old June 25 2013, 12:58 AM   #147
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Yea, I think Cochise basically told the truth, but, almost certainly there are other truths he hasn't told
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Old June 25 2013, 01:46 AM   #148
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
I dunno.
QFT.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:59 AM   #149
Guy Gardener
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

You're aware that not all the Volm would have left Volmworld to chase the Asphenni.

A few thousand Volm left two hundred years ago, while a few billion stayed behind because they "got over it" and moved on with rebuilding their planet.

Or...

The entire population mobilized, and left Volmworld empty.

There might be a reason for that, if the ecological destruction of Volmworld was so excessive, that even if there can volmaform their planet back into a fit and liveable state, it still might take a few hundred years till it's in a fit and pristine condition.

(No I haven't seen Wall-E too many times.)

Ergo, the Volm are killing time till their world is ready.

This is all conditional to the scope of Cochise's truth.

Oh?

If Ben Hathaway surrendered, which would have been the responsible thing to do, to surrender as often as loudly as possibly so that terms for the continued survival of the human race could be argued for... Is he really the President any more?
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; June 25 2013 at 03:16 AM.
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Old June 25 2013, 02:42 AM   #150
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Re: Falling Skies - season 3

Admiral2 wrote: View Post

In Real Life, Australia is a continent called "Australia." Has been for years.
Wikipedia wants to make you it's bitch.

Continental Australia.
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