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Old June 24 2013, 06:50 PM   #16
Belz...
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

Faria wrote: View Post
And i think JJships don't need a wormhole to go to gamma quadrant
I think 1701-A didn't, either, if we're to believe TFF.
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Old June 24 2013, 07:24 PM   #17
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Bigger and faster, maybe, but in the JJ-verse, Constitution Class ships are ultra-flimsy. Their shields seem completely unable to prevent major damage from occurring to the ship, sucking hapless ensigns out into the cold of space. I don't see how any of them could last the requisite five years.

ETA: are the JJ Constitutions even strong enough to survive a wormhole?
JJ-verse ships do not appear to be any more "ultra-flimsy" than Prime-verse ships. TOS Constitution Class ships also met with such tragedies. The budget and FX technology did not allow them to be shown to the extent of a modern theatrical release.
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Old June 25 2013, 12:44 AM   #18
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

T'Girl wrote: View Post

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
I think that the Nerada Incident has had a knock-on effect on all the Alpha-Quadrant races.
Not to be slow, but I have to admit to you that I've never come across the expression "knock-on effect." What does it mean please?
Sorry, knock-on means that it has a ripple effect.

Race A encounters Race B, and has to construct technologies to allow it to compete with them militarily. Race C sees this build-up and although not directly involved thinks "Oh crap, we better do that too!" and changes their own design/construction philosophies accordingly.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
It would be an arms-race, and no doubt they may have attempted to keep up. IIRC
Not necessarily, the Klingon like their ships lean and fast. The need to oversize wouldn't be automatic.

Ah, but alongside the Birds of Prey, the Klingons also have the D7 (their equivalent of the Constitution/Miranda), and there is a theory that the refitted K'tinga-class from TMP was a direct result of Klingon spies learning of the proposed refits of the Constitution class. Another theory of course is that the Constitution refit was Starfleet's response to the K'tinga!

Alongside this, they have the Vorchas (Excelsior/Ambassador equivalent perhaps?) and the huge Neg'var-class, which appears to be almost a direct Klingon answer to the Galaxy-Class and Romulan D'deridex-class warbird.
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Old June 25 2013, 01:13 AM   #19
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

And the Gig'gles class.
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Old June 25 2013, 02:20 AM   #20
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
And the Gig'gles class.
Ah yes, I forgot, their famous transport ship, directly responsible for the transportation of the famous Klingon frozen dessert Haq'en'Das.

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Old June 25 2013, 01:40 PM   #21
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Nah, I'm sure the premature destruction of the Kelvin will radically change Dominion ship design to be ten times bigger too.
Seriously. The Dominion probably have warships which dramatically dwarf a Super Star Destroyer.
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Old June 25 2013, 03:19 PM   #22
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Ah, but alongside the Birds of Prey, the Klingons also have the D7 (their equivalent of the Constitution/Miranda), and there is a theory that the refitted K'tinga-class from TMP was a direct result of Klingon spies learning of the proposed refits of the Constitution class. Another theory of course is that the Constitution refit was Starfleet's response to the K'tinga!
My theory is that they just had more money for the models.
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Old June 25 2013, 04:06 PM   #23
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

Belz... wrote: View Post
solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Ah, but alongside the Birds of Prey, the Klingons also have the D7 (their equivalent of the Constitution/Miranda), and there is a theory that the refitted K'tinga-class from TMP was a direct result of Klingon spies learning of the proposed refits of the Constitution class. Another theory of course is that the Constitution refit was Starfleet's response to the K'tinga!
My theory is that they just had more money for the models.
Shhh you, and your pesky allowing of "real Life" to enter discussions!!

Next thing you know, you'll be saying the only reason the Klingons changed appearance in TMP is that they had a bigger make-up budget!
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Old June 25 2013, 04:39 PM   #24
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Bigger and faster, maybe, but in the JJ-verse, Constitution Class ships are ultra-flimsy. Their shields seem completely unable to prevent major damage from occurring to the ship, sucking hapless ensigns out into the cold of space. I don't see how any of them could last the requisite five years.

ETA: are the JJ Constitutions even strong enough to survive a wormhole?
JJ-verse ships do not appear to be any more "ultra-flimsy" than Prime-verse ships. TOS Constitution Class ships also met with such tragedies. The budget and FX technology did not allow them to be shown to the extent of a modern theatrical release.
Two Constitutions held up better against the planet-eating doomsday machine than a JJ-fleet did against (what was essentially) a mining ship. I don't think that can be explained away with better graphics.
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Old June 26 2013, 01:06 AM   #25
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Sector 7 wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Bigger and faster, maybe, but in the JJ-verse, Constitution Class ships are ultra-flimsy. Their shields seem completely unable to prevent major damage from occurring to the ship, sucking hapless ensigns out into the cold of space. I don't see how any of them could last the requisite five years.

ETA: are the JJ Constitutions even strong enough to survive a wormhole?
JJ-verse ships do not appear to be any more "ultra-flimsy" than Prime-verse ships. TOS Constitution Class ships also met with such tragedies. The budget and FX technology did not allow them to be shown to the extent of a modern theatrical release.
Two Constitutions held up better against the planet-eating doomsday machine than a JJ-fleet did against (what was essentially) a mining ship. I don't think that can be explained away with better graphics.
Ah, but it all still depends on plot.

The Nerada was also able to shrug off the explosion of the USS Kelvin whereas the Doomsday machine was destroyed by the explosion of the Constellation.

Also remember the Nerada is over a century ahead of even the JJ-tech starships tech-wise.

For an example from merely forty years tech difference:-




Going a century back from then, the Tomcats would have been facing hot-air balloons.
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Old June 26 2013, 01:30 AM   #26
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

It works better if you compare civilian vs military, since Narada was a civilian ship. Would an oil rig from today thrown back to 1913 be able to take down any contemporary naval vessels? Even do any significant damage?
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Old June 26 2013, 01:39 AM   #27
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

I'm sure somebody will write a novel about the Dominion in the JJ-verse.

They're not really the same universe anyway. Two different imaginings of the same core idea are not required to match each others' continuity. Roddenberry and Abrams Trek are no more connected to each other than Burton and Nolan Batman.
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Old June 26 2013, 01:55 AM   #28
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I'm sure somebody will write a novel about the Dominion in the JJ-verse.
They'll have to wait until novels set in the Abramsverse are allowed.
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Old June 26 2013, 01:57 AM   #29
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
It works better if you compare civilian vs military, since Narada was a civilian ship. Would an oil rig from today thrown back to 1913 be able to take down any contemporary naval vessels? Even do any significant damage?
But this still doesn't quite fit, as the on-screen evidence shows that, despite the Narada being a mere mining vessel, for whatever reason, she was armed to the teeth, with military-grade firepower.

The analogy would be "What if you outfitted a modern rig with Harpoon Missile launchers and sent it back to 1913?"

We really have to wonder WHY the Romulans felt it was necessary to arm the ship with what appears to be weaponry even more formidable than a Warbird?

In a strange twist, it could in fact be that Dominion attacks on the Romulan industrial base forced them to arm mining vessels out of all proportion for protection.

Then, the Narada going back in time, changes starship developement, meaning that when the Dominion actually do turn up on the scene, they may be less of a threat due to these very technological advances!
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Old June 26 2013, 05:25 AM   #30
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Re: Will the Dominion be a complete non-factor in the JJ-Verse?

If you want the non-canon answer (and I'm sure many of you don't, so look away if tie-in comics make you puke), the Narada was so badass cause before going back in time but after Romulus blew up, it was upgraded by a Romulan military station with experimental tech.
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