RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,754
Posts: 5,433,535
Members: 24,836
Currently online: 572
Newest member: Mei'konda

TrekToday headlines

The Art of John Alvin Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 23

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Gaming

Gaming Non-Star Trek Gaming

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 24 2013, 03:59 PM   #61
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

The problem is not so much in digital downloads, but different price structures. There is a difference between downloading an album at perhaps a couple of hunderd megs and a game at a couple of dozen gigs. If you were to go down a digital and a physical release then any price difference should only be slight say no more than £5/€5/$5 etc.. Any more than that and you are in effect penalising people based on where they live. Not everyone has superfast broadband or even broadband some are still on dial-up.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 04:55 PM   #62
AlphaMan
Rear Admiral
 
AlphaMan's Avatar
 
Location: Doom 2099
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

That's not counting the fact that disc release purchasers have the option to lower their cost by trading in the game/loaning it to a friend.
AlphaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 05:27 PM   #63
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

The real problem for download only purchases vs. physical is that it directly competes with the old fashioned brick and mortar outlets, which last I heard still accounts for the lion's share of revenue for triple-A game releases. To date, few publishers are willing to undercut the likes of Gamestop and risk damaging what is still a reasonably profitable relationship and loosing most of their income if those shops decide to cease stocking their product.

Granted those same shops really take the piss by making *huge* profits by actively pushing trade-ins and used game sales, which makes it a bit of an abusive relationship when you think about it. Even more so since the publishers seem intent of passing this abuse along to their customers.

I must admit that I'm at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't partnered up with the likes of Amazon as an alternative to in store sales. I mean it would seem the logical compromise as their business model allows for lower price points and yet the customer still gets a physical product rather than a code for a digital service that may or may not evaporate a few years down the line.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 06:32 PM   #64
ATimson
Rear Admiral
 
ATimson's Avatar
 
Location: Andrew Timson
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

Reverend wrote: View Post
The real problem for download only purchases vs. physical is that it directly competes with the old fashioned brick and mortar outlets, which last I heard still accounts for the lion's share of revenue for triple-A game releases.
At least part of that was due to the 360 not doing day-and-date digital releases, though. If you wanted the game, you had to go retail. That's supposedly changing with the Xbox One.

Reverend wrote: View Post
I must admit that I'm at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't partnered up with the likes of Amazon as an alternative to in store sales. I mean it would seem the logical compromise as their business model allows for lower price points and yet the customer still gets a physical product rather than a code for a digital service that may or may not evaporate a few years down the line.
I'm... not understanding who that's supposed to help, or how.
__________________
Andrew Timson
===============
"Niceness is the greatest human flaw, except for all the others." - Brendan Moody

"...don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido
ATimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 09:35 PM   #65
AlphaMan
Rear Admiral
 
AlphaMan's Avatar
 
Location: Doom 2099
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

Reverend wrote: View Post
The real problem for download only purchases vs. physical is that it directly competes with the old fashioned brick and mortar outlets, which last I heard still accounts for the lion's share of revenue for triple-A game releases. To date, few publishers are willing to undercut the likes of Gamestop and risk damaging what is still a reasonably profitable relationship and loosing most of their income if those shops decide to cease stocking their product.

Granted those same shops really take the piss by making *huge* profits by actively pushing trade-ins and used game sales, which makes it a bit of an abusive relationship when you think about it. Even more so since the publishers seem intent of passing this abuse along to their customers.

I must admit that I'm at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't partnered up with the likes of Amazon as an alternative to in store sales. I mean it would seem the logical compromise as their business model allows for lower price points and yet the customer still gets a physical product rather than a code for a digital service that may or may not evaporate a few years down the line.
Well, those same shops have no qualms about cutting new game sales by offering used games. There's no way you can argue that used game sales have no effect on new game sales. Do you really think GameStop or whoever else will not have Call Of Duty and Madden on store shelves due to damaged relations to with the publishers? If so, I say go ahead and pull that trigger. As a primarily new game buyer who rarely sells his used games, I'd appreciate some acknowledgement in the form of a price cut for a digital download. I'm sure somewhere down the road the cost of used games was factored into the $60 price tag anyway. Why should I continue to subsidize used game sales?

My key point is that publishers have to be willing to give a little something to get rid of used game sales. It can't be all one way anti-consumer policies as Microsoft just learned.
AlphaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 09:43 PM   #66
AlphaMan
Rear Admiral
 
AlphaMan's Avatar
 
Location: Doom 2099
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

MacLeod wrote: View Post
The problem is not so much in digital downloads, but different price structures. There is a difference between downloading an album at perhaps a couple of hunderd megs and a game at a couple of dozen gigs. If you were to go down a digital and a physical release then any price difference should only be slight say no more than £5/€5/$5 etc.. Any more than that and you are in effect penalising people based on where they live. Not everyone has superfast broadband or even broadband some are still on dial-up.
How does Steam do it then? I've seen games that are on console for $60 sell as low as $10-$20 on Steam. If its all digital distribution and no brick and mortar operation to support, how can it not be cheaper? Console manufacturers get a royalty already so they should be set.
AlphaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 01:19 AM   #67
Owain Taggart
Rear Admiral
 
Owain Taggart's Avatar
 
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

AlphaMan wrote: View Post
How does Steam do it then? I've seen games that are on console for $60 sell as low as $10-$20 on Steam. If its all digital distribution and no brick and mortar operation to support, how can it not be cheaper? Console manufacturers get a royalty already so they should be set.

Aren't those older releases though? We've all seen the classic GOTY console editions sold for $19.99 in stores, so it roughly comes down to the same thing.

On the other hand, if we look at the ebook model as an example, we see them being sold for more than the paperback price, at least on Amazon, which technically shouldn't happen if we consider that they're digital downloads. In the end, it's up to the publisher to set the price, something I could see the same thing being done for game downloads on consoles. I think sales should happen more often giving people good incentives to download.
Owain Taggart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 02:33 AM   #68
Unicron
Continuity Spackle
 
Unicron's Avatar
 
Location: Cybertron
Send a message via ICQ to Unicron
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

throwback wrote: View Post

Why can't Microsoft get their facts straight? Every time the PR department or a representative releases a statement, they seem to cock it up and create more headaches for the company. Where is the leadership in this company?
They're too busy playing the new HQ favorite, Gears of Accountancy. SPAWTS!!
__________________

"My dream is to eat candy and poop emeralds. I'm halfway successful."


Catbert, Evil Director of Human Resources
Unicron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 02:59 AM   #69
throwback
Captain
 
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

I was browsing the Escapist web site, in which they had an article about the price of the XBOX One. According to the economist and author of the The Art of Pricing, Rafi Mohammed,
You want to get that console in consumers' hands, and then where you really make the money is off the games. What they should be really doing to get consoles in consumers' hands is to decrease that price and make the Kinect an accessory.
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...-Too-Expensive) Ouch!
throwback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 03:13 PM   #70
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

AlphaMan wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
The problem is not so much in digital downloads, but different price structures. There is a difference between downloading an album at perhaps a couple of hunderd megs and a game at a couple of dozen gigs. If you were to go down a digital and a physical release then any price difference should only be slight say no more than £5/€5/$5 etc.. Any more than that and you are in effect penalising people based on where they live. Not everyone has superfast broadband or even broadband some are still on dial-up.
How does Steam do it then? I've seen games that are on console for $60 sell as low as $10-$20 on Steam. If its all digital distribution and no brick and mortar operation to support, how can it not be cheaper? Console manufacturers get a royalty already so they should be set.
Steam does it because the PC is an open platform, whereas consoles are closed platforms. Valve and the publishers that sell through them aren't afraid to compete with the hight street shops in that particular market since it's still considered somewhat of a niche.

Also, since nobody has figured out a way to make console hardware downloadable (stupid laws of physics) they still depend on the shops to sell and advertise their platforms. Drastically undercutting them in game sales could mean they refuse to carry their products. ANY of them. So no games, no consoles, no peripherals, accessories or merchandise.

This didn't happen with PCs because most of the high street companies that sell PCs aren't primarily concerned with games. Mostly they're just interested in selling the hardware an related non-game related software.

This is why I'm interested to see where the 'Steam Box' concept might go. I mean imagine a console like platform that runs Windows (or windows converted to Unix) games? There wouldn't be just one manufacturer exercising a monopoly with proprietary formats, but several competing products. Backwards compatibility would be a huge selling point while the openness and adaptability of a fully upgradable system wouldn't limit or hinder game developers so much.

Don't get me wrong, if they ever get it off the ground it'll be an uphill battle to get anywhere near the install base of the Playstation or X-Box and there's no way in hell Nintendo will loosen their grip on their IPs and their own platforms anytime soon...but who knows. Once, long ago I might have said the same thing about Sega and look what happened to them.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 07:42 PM   #71
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

AlphaMan wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
The problem is not so much in digital downloads, but different price structures. There is a difference between downloading an album at perhaps a couple of hunderd megs and a game at a couple of dozen gigs. If you were to go down a digital and a physical release then any price difference should only be slight say no more than £5/€5/$5 etc.. Any more than that and you are in effect penalising people based on where they live. Not everyone has superfast broadband or even broadband some are still on dial-up.
How does Steam do it then? I've seen games that are on console for $60 sell as low as $10-$20 on Steam. If its all digital distribution and no brick and mortar operation to support, how can it not be cheaper? Console manufacturers get a royalty already so they should be set.

I doubt that a brand new release is sold for for US$40-50 less via digital download than in a bricks and motar store.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 11:12 PM   #72
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

Brand new? No. But the price of PC games dose drop way quicker than on consoles and add to that Steam's frequent sales you can get games that are less than a year old for less than a tenner.

I realise it's not the best example since it's more like two years old, but just the other week I picked up Witcher 2 for £5. I'd like to see PSN or XBL match that!

I've also noticed that console games have a very definite minimum price threshold, regardless of age. Very few that I've seen get below the £20 mark and fewer still sell new for as little as £10-15. PC games the other hand go right down to bargain bin £2-5 range. Indeed, I''m pretty sure I recently spotted Batman Arkham Asylum on Amazon for £2.99...for the PC. The console versions were closer to £15.

Is it any wonder why nobody cares that there's no used game market for PC games? Or that the one for console games is so prevalent. Honestly I think the best thing the publishers can do to combat this lost source of revenue is reduce their prices.

Last edited by Reverend; June 26 2013 at 11:33 PM.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 11:42 PM   #73
Yoda
Rear Admiral
 
Yoda's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

http://www.getloadedgo.com/ -- latest deal for a game through Steam that I picked up. I grabbed Dishonored and Doom 3 BFG together for $15. Would have been a better deal for me if I didn't have most of the other games. I think Disohonored has been available for $20 at its lowest for consoles.

The funny thing is though, that the 'best' deals I see on games for PC are the smaller indie/XBLA type games. Where the same game on Xbox Live will keep a 10-15 price indefinitely they're soon available on sale in Steam for under $5. And of course there are the Humble Bundles if you want those types of games even cheaper.

For example I got Renegade Ops with its DLC for $5.50 (main game was $3.74) whereas all that costs $18 or so on Xbox. I guess Renegade Ops was on sale down from $10 to $7.50 for the main game on Xbox last week, and I think that's probably as good as it got, still twice as much, and I don't think the DLC was on sale.

Though I did get a couple of hundred dollars worth of Xbox funny money for 2/3 off, so I guess everything on there is on a pretty good sale at the moment . Still, I'm waiting for sales on games I want, and it's generally not as good as what you'll see on Steam. Spelunky is 50% off, but the DLC isn't on sale. Still I will pick it up since it sounds like a great game, almost snagged it at full price last week.

Whatever system you're on, if your patient you will eventually get good deals. But the Steam deals are more frequent and plain better 90% of the time.
__________________
Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27 2013, 06:13 PM   #74
Kelthaz
Rear Admiral
 
Kelthaz's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

Here is Cracked's Breakup Letter to Xbox.
__________________
"Who are you?! And how did you get in here?!"

"I'm the locksmith. And... I'm the locksmith."
Kelthaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2013, 03:26 PM   #75
Chrono85
Lieutenant Commander
 
Chrono85's Avatar
 
Location: USA
View Chrono85's Twitter Profile
Re: Microsoft planning complete reversal of DRM policy for Xbox One

The only thing holding me back on Xbox One now is the price point. If MS would release a version of Xbox One without Kinect, so it is comparable to PS4 in price, then I would be very confused as to which console to purchase .
Chrono85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
xbox, xbox one

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.