RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,571
Posts: 5,514,448
Members: 25,151
Currently online: 541
Newest member: slarlac249

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 21 2013, 07:37 AM   #16
Merry Christmas
Vice Admiral
 
Merry Christmas's Avatar
 
Location: tantalizing t'girl's techno temenos
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

nureintier wrote: View Post
Or maybe they just don't give the symbiont to anyone else. I don't remember now.
Erza being implanted with the Dax symbote was a emergency situation, Dax would have died prior to arriving on Trill if not implanted in someone, anyone.

Ezra (iirc) wasn't in the symbote program and didn't receive the training.

Merry Christmas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2013, 01:33 PM   #17
Bumbles861
Admiral
 
Bumbles861's Avatar
 
Location: bbailey861 in Kingston, ON
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

^ Yes, indeed, and that was one of the aspects that was great for the character - having to grow into the role of host.
Bumbles861 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2013, 03:25 PM   #18
Lord Garth
Captain
 
Lord Garth's Avatar
 
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

I don't think there's much that would've been done with it back in 1998. Bashir wouldn't have tried to make the moves on him. Worf is a wild card. He'd see him as a completely different person or he'd give him as much of a cold shoulder as possible and they'd never become friends.

If DS9 were made today, they'd push the angle that the new Dax used to be a woman. Homosexuality, transgender, not being completely one way or the other mentally, any of those. Bashir would have more inner conflict about it, but I still don't think he'd go for him... or would he? ... but Worf's reaction would be the same as it hypothetically would've been back then. Cold shoulder.
Lord Garth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2013, 10:08 PM   #19
TheRoyalFamily
Commodore
 
TheRoyalFamily's Avatar
 
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
. Bashir would have more inner conflict about it, but I still don't think he'd go for him... or would he?
I don't think so. He seemed to be quite hetero. I don't think he had any particular thing for Dax as Dax. He liked Jadzia, sure. But I don't think he held a particular flame for her, like Quark did. And if I remember correctly, he didn't pursue Ezri in particular, either - she chose him, he was available, and he's not the kind of guy that says no in that situation.
__________________
You perceive wrongly. I feel unimaginable happiness wasting time talking with women. I'm that type of human.
TheRoyalFamily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2013, 10:13 PM   #20
nureintier
Commander
 
nureintier's Avatar
 
Location: PA, USA
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
nureintier wrote: View Post
Or maybe they just don't give the symbiont to anyone else. I don't remember now.
Erza being implanted with the Dax symbote was a emergency situation, Dax would have died prior to arriving on Trill if not implanted in someone, anyone.

Ezra (iirc) wasn't in the symbote program and didn't receive the training.

Oh, ok, makes more sense now. I must have not been paying attention there. ^_^
nureintier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22 2013, 12:10 AM   #21
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

Neither Bashir nor Worf would have become romantically involved with him, but Bashir would become good friends with him, and the friendship would be awkward and weird at the start bu then they'd grow into it.

Or possibly, since Trills with old symbionts are more open to bisexuality in general even if they aren't chemically bisexual, he would have been attracted to Worf, but Worf would have never been interested.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22 2013, 02:39 PM   #22
TheSubCommander
Captain
 
TheSubCommander's Avatar
 
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

nureintier wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
nureintier wrote: View Post
Or maybe they just don't give the symbiont to anyone else. I don't remember now.
Erza being implanted with the Dax symbote was a emergency situation, Dax would have died prior to arriving on Trill if not implanted in someone, anyone.

Ezra (iirc) wasn't in the symbote program and didn't receive the training.

Oh, ok, makes more sense now. I must have not been paying attention there. ^_^
Well, IMHO,the whole thing of Ezri coming back to DS9 was weak writing from the start. Every other Trill who is joined with a symbiote is supposed to start a new life far away from their former host's life. Technically it was a stretch with Jadzia serving under Sisko in the first place. I think they should have had the courage to just kill off Dax completely.

And as to the emergency transfer to Ezri, I call BS. Riker had one for over a week, and they were able to remove the symbiote without killing him, and he wasn't even a Trill. Ezri surely could have had Dax removed without killing her.

Slightly off topic: Many talks about how Star Trek missed the boat on LGBT issues with Trills and could have done more with them, and IMHO they did. But another controversial topic they missed was that of abortions. What happens when a Trill is joined with a symbiote when they feel they have no choice or change their mind? More specifically, what if Ezri wanted to abort Dax?
TheSubCommander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 22 2013, 04:36 PM   #23
solariabsg25
Captain
 
solariabsg25's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, UK
View solariabsg25's Twitter Profile
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
nureintier wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Erza being implanted with the Dax symbote was a emergency situation, Dax would have died prior to arriving on Trill if not implanted in someone, anyone.

Ezra (iirc) wasn't in the symbote program and didn't receive the training.

Oh, ok, makes more sense now. I must have not been paying attention there. ^_^
Well, IMHO,the whole thing of Ezri coming back to DS9 was weak writing from the start. Every other Trill who is joined with a symbiote is supposed to start a new life far away from their former host's life. Technically it was a stretch with Jadzia serving under Sisko in the first place. I think they should have had the courage to just kill off Dax completely.

And as to the emergency transfer to Ezri, I call BS. Riker had one for over a week, and they were able to remove the symbiote without killing him, and he wasn't even a Trill. Ezri surely could have had Dax removed without killing her.

Slightly off topic: Many talks about how Star Trek missed the boat on LGBT issues with Trills and could have done more with them, and IMHO they did. But another controversial topic they missed was that of abortions. What happens when a Trill is joined with a symbiote when they feel they have no choice or change their mind? More specifically, what if Ezri wanted to abort Dax?
Firstly Ezri is a Starfleet Officer - therefore she goes where Starfleet assigns her, not where Trill decides she should go. The only way to avoid that would be for Ezri to resign her commission, something that would go against the whole idea of blending being an equal partnership between symbiote and host. Also, going by your logic, doesn't that mean that if you were a blended Trill, living on Trill, if you had a new host, that host would have to leave Trill?

As to Riker. it's possible that his being a non-Trill made the removal procedure easier, as his body isn't really 100% compatible in the first place.

The Trill issue regarding abortions? I don't get exactly what you mean there. Removing a symbiote isn't an "abortion" unless you're saying they'll just take it out and let it die. It's also of no comparison, as symbiotes are far more than embryos.
__________________
"A perfect organism, unclouded by remorse, or human illusions of morality." - Ash, Alien
solariabsg25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 03:39 AM   #24
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

Jadzia wound up with Sisko because Starfleet assigned her there.

With Ezri, it was more because Sisko was her closest friend in the world and he was the only one she trusted to accept her and and help her in a time of desperation.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 12:44 PM   #25
MrPointy
Commander
 
MrPointy's Avatar
 
Location: Darwin, NT
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

I thought the reason the writers went with another female Dax was because if they went with a male Dax, there would have only been one female regular (Kira) on the DS9 cast.

But a male Dax would have been pretty interesting. Worf and Bashir's reaction to him would have been very interesting.
__________________
“If like the leaf of the wisteria through which the sun darts his rays transparently you give your heart to me, I will no longer distrust you.” -- Lieutenant Worf
MrPointy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 03:55 PM   #26
Sindatur
Vice Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
The Trill issue regarding abortions? I don't get exactly what you mean there. Removing a symbiote isn't an "abortion" unless you're saying they'll just take it out and let it die. It's also of no comparison, as symbiotes are far more than embryos.
Plus the fact that there are so few Symbiotes, there lives seem to be valued higher than the Trill Hosts. If Ezri wanted to kill herself by removing the Symbiote, I don't think there would be any major upheaval, but, killing the Symbiote because she didn't want it, would never be acceptable. It's highly unlikely a joined Trill would ever want to give up their host, it is a revered to position to be, and a very rewarding experience

If you recall, in the episode where Jadzia's symbiote is stolen, she was in danger of dying.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 04:30 PM   #27
solariabsg25
Captain
 
solariabsg25's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, UK
View solariabsg25's Twitter Profile
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
The Trill issue regarding abortions? I don't get exactly what you mean there. Removing a symbiote isn't an "abortion" unless you're saying they'll just take it out and let it die. It's also of no comparison, as symbiotes are far more than embryos.
Plus the fact that there are so few Symbiotes, there lives seem to be valued higher than the Trill Hosts. If Ezri wanted to kill herself by removing the Symbiote, I don't think there would be any major upheaval, but, killing the Symbiote because she didn't want it, would never be acceptable. It's highly unlikely a joined Trill would ever want to give up their host, it is a revered to position to be, and a very rewarding experience

If you recall, in the episode where Jadzia's symbiote is stolen, she was in danger of dying.
Trills and Goa'uld are very similar in that regard, removing either from a healthy host is possible, but extremely life-threatening. It also appears that after the full blending, removal of a Trill symbiote does mean almost certain death for the host, which is a purely biological problem, unlike a Goa'uld on the other hand which would gladly take the host with it out of spite.
__________________
"A perfect organism, unclouded by remorse, or human illusions of morality." - Ash, Alien
solariabsg25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 04:34 PM   #28
dub
Fleet Captain
 
dub's Avatar
 
Location: Location? What is this?
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

MrPointy wrote: View Post
I thought the reason the writers went with another female Dax was because if they went with a male Dax, there would have only been one female regular (Kira) on the DS9 cast.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! It was more about cast balance than anything else. Terry was leaving, and it was convenient that her character had a way to carry on in a way with a new actress. The cast was definitely male-heavy, so bringing in a new female Dax was a no-brainer.

It's interesting to discuss other possibilities though, including a male Dax. I was also thinking during a recent re-watch that it would have been interesting to keep Miles' daughter as an older girl when she came through that time portal instead of bringing her back as her normal age. It would have been interesting to see if she were to adapt and actually stay aboard the station, eventually she could have been a love interest for Jake or even Nog. Or just to have her away from the station and have the O'Brien's dealing with that would have been interesting. I wonder if they considered that while writing the script since it was one of the later episodes?
dub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 12:27 AM   #29
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

IIRC, a gua'ld can be removed from a human host, but only with advanced technologies only held by the Tok'ra and Tollan. Also a human can survive the death of the inhabiting gu'ald, but only if that gu'ald makes a conscious effort to save the human's life which only happened on two occasions (Jolinar and Jonas' girlfriend).

With Trills, it's explicit that the host's immune system becomes completely dependent on the symbiont.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 12:57 AM   #30
solariabsg25
Captain
 
solariabsg25's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, UK
View solariabsg25's Twitter Profile
Re: What if Ezri Dax was a male?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
IIRC, a gua'ld can be removed from a human host, but only with advanced technologies only held by the Tok'ra and Tollan. Also a human can survive the death of the inhabiting gu'ald, but only if that gu'ald makes a conscious effort to save the human's life which only happened on two occasions (Jolinar and Jonas' girlfriend).

With Trills, it's explicit that the host's immune system becomes completely dependent on the symbiont.
Exactly, in fact a complete reversal of Trills. Jaffa do not blend with the symbiote, but have no immune system, whereas a full host can survive removal following blending with little or no ill effects (unless the symbiote fights the procedure tooth and nail).

Trill symbiotes blend with their host but after a short time completely destroy the host's immune system, so no matter how benign the removal, it's almost certainly fatal to the host, so only done in the most dire circumstances.
__________________
"A perfect organism, unclouded by remorse, or human illusions of morality." - Ash, Alien
solariabsg25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.