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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 13 2013, 10:00 PM   #106
SonicRanger
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Re: concept art and set photos!

trevanian wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
That is an example of an inept use of an effect best reserved for still photography that has only rarely really worked well in films.

It isn't a matter of being stylistically dated, just that it looks bad, both then (ogod SO bad in the theater you wanted to check your contact lenses) & now. TMP's use of soft or bounce lights didn't help, either. . .

If you want 'stylistically dated' then maybe you should look at Coppola's DRACULA, which used hand-cranked cameras at times (and to pretty good effect.)
The dual-focus diopter lens was popular among certain film directors, including Wise, during the 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_fo...-focus_diopter

Wise's diopter is no different that JJ's lens flares. Both involve a director using a somewhat popular lens technology in several of their movies, ultimately dating them but the director is primarily concerned with interesting compositions at the time.
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Old June 13 2013, 10:09 PM   #107
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Re: concept art and set photos!

SonicRanger wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
That is an example of an inept use of an effect best reserved for still photography that has only rarely really worked well in films.

It isn't a matter of being stylistically dated, just that it looks bad, both then (ogod SO bad in the theater you wanted to check your contact lenses) & now. TMP's use of soft or bounce lights didn't help, either. . .

If you want 'stylistically dated' then maybe you should look at Coppola's DRACULA, which used hand-cranked cameras at times (and to pretty good effect.)
The dual-focus diopter lens was popular among certain film directors, including Wise, during the 1970s.
.
No kidding? Wise made HINDENBURG, which is why I used that as a specific example, and put its use in context with respect to lighting (the part of my post you snipped out above.)
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Old June 13 2013, 10:13 PM   #108
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Re: concept art and set photos!

^^^

You seemed to be disagreeing with my parallel between lens flares and the diopter technique. If you weren't, great.
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Old June 13 2013, 10:32 PM   #109
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Re: concept art and set photos!

trevanian wrote: View Post
But note that I am not using the wholly indefensible 'you with your...' line of irrelevancy that is trotted out so regularly across this BBS as if it is the last trump to end discussion or discredit dissenting views.
Which is appreciated, to be sure.

But you're attempting to analyze in the voice of expert opinion what are -- BY DEFINITION -- stylistic choices. It's like going to see Django Unchained and complaining that the Birth of a Nation scene isn't blocked properly and the lighting choices are inconsistent with the tempo of the dialog. Hence my point about directing: making movies is an art form, not a technical pursuit. Very good directors can get away with doing things wrong -- intentionally -- if they can make it work. That's one of the things about the use of shaky-cam during intense battle scenes. One of the earliest uses of that technique was when Spielberg did it in Saving Private Ryan; it worked pretty well at the time. One of the worst uses of that technique was almost every single scene in "The Bourne Supremacy" and also parts of Transformers, where the shaky cam gets so extreme that you can't tell who's fighting who until one of them hits the floor (and the car chase in Bourne Supremacy looks like home video shot on a camera phone glued to the back of somebody's wrist).

Style trumps technicality any day. As long as you don't forget your glaucoma medication (like my mother did the first time she saw it) the lens flare effect works pretty well.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:55 PM   #110
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Re: concept art and set photos!

I think you're just re-illustrating my point when you mention RYAN and then BOURNE. There's a world of dif between them in terms of how the technique is used, same for me when DIE HARD and TheAbrams are compared. (to cut off the smartass who is going to post 'so you are comparing DIE HARD TO SAVING PRIVATE RYAN,' followed by the emoticon of the hour, no, I am comparing the use of a technique in each of these and how well said technique was employed.)

My view is not at all original or out-of-the-box: you have to learn the rules in order to break them, or know when to try. Yet I don't even see basic cinematic grammar observed much anymore in movies, because it is almost like they are made in sentence fragments and run-ons (and yeah, I know this analogy breaks down because language doesn't allow for a direct linkage between written word and pics, which is why one of the latter is worth ... ) I think this is to the detriment of the storytelling, although I guess it is a way to throw up more of a screen against picking holes in the story for many.

I'm not suggesting that movies would benefit from being recut to look like 5 DAYS ONE SUMMER, Zinneman's last film, which probably runs 45 minutes before you even get a closeup and actually creaks along so slowly that you could get arthritis just watching it. And there are plenty of filmmakers who do actually make films without the distractions, which is how I would characterize the usually unmotivated and dramatically distracting lens flares, along with those who can't hold on a master shot for more than 2 seconds for fear their weak sense of composition will bore the audience.

The 'cut before it gets boring' mindset seems understandable from panicky editors turned directors (I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU stu baird, you don't deserve upper case letters as a director), but it seems very odd from people who actually are supposed to be able to set up a shot that is aesthetically satisfactory and tells the story.
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Old June 14 2013, 02:45 AM   #111
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Re: concept art and set photos!

trevanian wrote: View Post
Nothing, we're talking at cross purposes (big surprise there) and neither is going to convince the other.
Maybe you will if you both agree that it's a matter of opinion and that there's nothing objective or technical about it.
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Old June 14 2013, 07:28 PM   #112
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Re: concept art and set photos!

Belz... wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Nothing, we're talking at cross purposes (big surprise there) and neither is going to convince the other.
Maybe you will if you both agree that it's a matter of opinion and that there's nothing objective or technical about it.
There isn't, of course.
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Old June 14 2013, 10:20 PM   #113
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Re: concept art and set photos!

Belz... wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Nothing, we're talking at cross purposes (big surprise there) and neither is going to convince the other.
Maybe you will if you both agree that it's a matter of opinion and that there's nothing objective or technical about it.
Like Hell!

Though if you're happy seeing through a glass darkly, you need better eyes.
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Old June 14 2013, 10:53 PM   #114
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Re: concept art and set photos!

trevanian wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Nothing, we're talking at cross purposes (big surprise there) and neither is going to convince the other.
Maybe you will if you both agree that it's a matter of opinion and that there's nothing objective or technical about it.
Like Hell!

Though if you're happy seeing through a glass darkly, you need better eyes.
Do you always dismiss every subjective, deliberate artistic choice a director makes simply because it doesn't fit into the painting-by-the-numbers pattern you'd seem to prefer?
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Old June 15 2013, 12:52 AM   #115
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Re: concept art and set photos!

trevanian wrote: View Post
Like Hell!
So you don't think it's a matter of opinion, then ?

Though if you're happy seeing through a glass darkly, you need better eyes.
I have no clue what you're saying, here.
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Old June 15 2013, 12:55 AM   #116
beamMe
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Re: concept art and set photos!

Belz... wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Like Hell!
So you don't think it's a matter of opinion, then ?

Though if you're happy seeing through a glass darkly, you need better eyes.
I have no clue what you're saying, here.
I could be wrong, but I think it's his witty way of looking down on the current 3D-tech.
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Old June 15 2013, 01:48 AM   #117
M'Sharak
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Re: concept art and set photos!

beamMe wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Like Hell!
So you don't think it's a matter of opinion, then ?

Though if you're happy seeing through a glass darkly, you need better eyes.
I have no clue what you're saying, here.
I could be wrong, but I think it's his witty way of looking down on the current 3D-tech.
beamMe, you're dragging in a squabble from a different thread - a squabble which should have been dropped then, and a thread in which you were specifically directed to refrain from sniping at trevanian. That will be a warning to you for starting it up again here. Further comments to PM, please.

Let's everyone back it down a notch. Discuss the topic, and leave out the personal digs; if it's impossible to manage that, then don't post at all.
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Old June 24 2013, 04:15 AM   #118
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Re: concept art and set photos!

Nice way to kill a thread...



Anybody seen any other behind-the-scenes stuff lately?
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Old June 24 2013, 06:10 AM   #119
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Re: concept art and set photos!

daveyNY wrote: View Post

Anybody seen any other behind-the-scenes stuff lately?
I don't know how new it really is, but this was posted on Bad Robot's Twitter feed the other day and I hadn't seen it before:

http://badrobot.com/TrekBehindScenes2/
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Old June 24 2013, 01:53 PM   #120
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Re: concept art and set photos!

Love it.
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