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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 13 2013, 04:55 AM   #256
Set Harth
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Re: Why did they bother...

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
The TOS crew is now sci-fi James Bonds; the characters are timeless in that they are not connected to any one actor (though we'll always have our Sean Connery/favorites).
So the current ones are the Roger Moores of Star Trek?
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Old June 13 2013, 05:06 AM   #257
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Re: Why did they bother...

^ Basically.

After all, Roger Moore was the one who gave us some of the more outlandish-yet-amusing 007 storylines. Who else, after all, could have pulled off an infantry battle in orbit?

The good news is, at the pace we're going, the Daniel Craig generation of Trek actors will be able to film ENTIRELY on location .
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Old June 13 2013, 05:09 AM   #258
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Re: Why did they bother...

I don't care, because I will be dead.
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Old June 13 2013, 06:23 AM   #259
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Re: Why did they bother...

sj4iy wrote: View Post
But I've noticed that people want the original stories, NOT the original actors, and that they are miffed that the characters were put in an alternate universe.
Not at all. I'm perfectly fine with new stories. In fact, I want new stories - not retreads with the serial numbers filed off.

It's not even about the fact that they used Khan as the antagonist, although I admit that I did a reverse headdesk into my seat's headrest when Khan revealed who he was.

Had they shown me Marcus having Khan do his bidding and seen Khan's mounting frustration, he would have been a much more interesting and sympathetic character. Orci and Kurtzman broke the first rule of writing: "Show, don't tell." More story, and less idiotic action (not "less action" - less "idiotic action"), and STID would have been a much better movie.

I would even have been willing to lose the opening sequence on Nibiru - which I loved - to give more time to the backstory of why Khan is so pissed off at Marcus. Instead, we got Spock trying to beat up Khan while riding on top of a flying car. Ooo. And the laws of physics getting thrown out the airlock.

If anything, this movie was a blatant attempt to tell a story that had been told before, only with the identities of the characters swapped around a bit.

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CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I think you'll find most people who don't accept Pine and Quinto are 24th century Star Trek fans.
Raging that its not Picard or Janeway or Sisko on screen.
This ties in with my own (completely unscientific) pet theory that it's mostly TNG-era fans that have issues with the new movies, because they're not "intellectual" or "utopian" enough--as opposed to us old-school TOS fans who grew up on a STAR TREK that was both "cerebral" and good, old-fashioned space-opera adventure.
I love space opera, and The Final Frontier is probably my least favourite of all the Trek films - though I see what Shatner was trying to do. I just don't think he quite got there. (Then again, I'm one of those old-school fans - I'm 45 years old, and discovered TOS in syndication around 1980.)

It's possible to combine them. With another couple of drafts, Nemesis could have been a brilliant movie, with its nature-versus-nurture theme and some "good, old-fashioned space-opera adventure". STID could have been in my top three Trek movies - but I was so pissed off at its shortcomings that I didn't even realize until later that there was a current-day political allegory in there screaming to be let out. (My favourite Trek film is The Undiscovered Country, because it's an unashamed political allegory.)
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Old June 13 2013, 01:23 PM   #260
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Re: Why did they bother...

I agree. They should have spent 3 hours on a flashback.

Various scenes they should have shown us, but were jerks:

1. Khan's mom is puffing. Khan pops out covered in slime. Using cgi eyelids and lips. he turns to the camera, winks and says, "I will have my vengeance!"

2. Khan is on the toilet reading the newspaper. Joachim knocks on the door. "My Khan, no one likes us. :sob:" Khan: "Damn! Ready the Botany Bay."

3. The Botany Bay lifts off. Khan: "Did anyone pack my porn?" :crickets: "Come on people!"

and so forth.
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Old June 13 2013, 06:19 PM   #261
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Re: Why did they bother...

newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
I agree. They should have spent 3 hours on a flashback.

Various scenes they should have shown us, but were jerks:

1. Khan's mom is puffing. Khan pops out covered in slime. Using cgi eyelids and lips. he turns to the camera, winks and says, "I will have my vengeance!"

2. Khan is on the toilet reading the newspaper. Joachim knocks on the door. "My Khan, no one likes us. :sob:" Khan: "Damn! Ready the Botany Bay."

3. The Botany Bay lifts off. Khan: "Did anyone pack my porn?" :crickets: "Come on people!"

and so forth.
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Old June 18 2013, 05:39 PM   #262
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Re: Why did they bother...

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
The TOS crew is now sci-fi James Bonds; the characters are timeless in that they are not connected to any one actor (though we'll always have our Sean Connery/favorites).
So the current ones are the Roger Moores of Star Trek?
That is a powerful, accurate comparison; the Moore Bond--in many ways--was Bond in name only. The trappings might seem similar, but the defining character, heart and aura which made the character an international popular cultural legend (thank you, Mr. Connery), was nowhere to be found in the Moore films--and for every sound reason.

The Moore films continued, but at the end of it all (A View to A Kill), no one thought the Moore run came close to the power of the Connery performance and films.
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Old June 18 2013, 06:14 PM   #263
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Re: Why did they bother...

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
The TOS crew is now sci-fi James Bonds; the characters are timeless in that they are not connected to any one actor (though we'll always have our Sean Connery/favorites).
So the current ones are the Roger Moores of Star Trek?
That is a powerful, accurate comparison; the Moore Bond--in many ways--was Bond in name only. The trappings might seem similar, but the defining character, heart and aura which made the character an international popular cultural legend (thank you, Mr. Connery), was nowhere to be found in the Moore films--and for every sound reason.

The Moore films continued, but at the end of it all (A View to A Kill), no one thought the Moore run came close to the power of the Connery performance and films.
I don't think this is real camp like Moore was. This is probably more like the Brosnan era if you want to compare it to Bond than anything. Particularly the first 3 films. But I think this film had some good set up the first part of the film. If it followed through on that and made Khan a more developed villain in a 3rd movie instead of a reverse TWOK, we probably wouldn't get as many people that don't like this film. I think the characters represent their legendary counterparts. There are issues here and there and there are some things that the writing isn't quite hitting right. But to me the only thing better would be if we had a new series.

Moore has his own following and a lot of people(I'm not one) like him as their favorite Bond though.
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Old June 19 2013, 04:44 PM   #264
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Re: Why did they bother...

Zeppster wrote: View Post
Moore has his own following and a lot of people(I'm not one) like him as their favorite Bond though.
I'm one of them.
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Old June 23 2013, 01:30 AM   #265
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Re: Why did they bother...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Zeppster wrote: View Post
Moore has his own following and a lot of people(I'm not one) like him as their favorite Bond though.
I'm one of them.
I assume a lot of his fans from "The Saint" thought of Moore's Bond as the same character, but now with gadgets.
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Old June 23 2013, 01:52 AM   #266
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Re: Why did they bother...

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
The TOS crew is now sci-fi James Bonds; the characters are timeless in that they are not connected to any one actor (though we'll always have our Sean Connery/favorites).
So the current ones are the Roger Moores of Star Trek?
Nope, the Original cast are both Connery and Moore. TOS= Connery. Films= Moore.
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Old June 24 2013, 06:56 AM   #267
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Re: Why did they bother...

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
The TOS crew is now sci-fi James Bonds; the characters are timeless in that they are not connected to any one actor (though we'll always have our Sean Connery/favorites).
So the current ones are the Roger Moores of Star Trek?
Nope, the Original cast are both Connery and Moore. TOS= Connery. Films= Moore.
So, does that mean TAS=Lazenby?
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Old June 24 2013, 07:18 AM   #268
M'Sharak
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Re: Why did they bother...

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
The TOS crew is now sci-fi James Bonds; the characters are timeless in that they are not connected to any one actor (though we'll always have our Sean Connery/favorites).
So the current ones are the Roger Moores of Star Trek?
Nope, the Original cast are both Connery and Moore. TOS= Connery. Films= Moore.
So, does that mean TAS=Lazenby?
I think the analogy might be on shaky ground, at that point.
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Old June 24 2013, 12:26 PM   #269
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Re: Why did they bother...

Hey, I liked OHMSS :P
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Old June 24 2013, 05:39 PM   #270
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Re: Why did they bother...

OHMSS is the best Bond as a "film." I think this is because of Lazenby. I don't know that the beautiful sentiment and irony that carried over from the book would have really translated well had it been Connery.
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