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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old June 21 2013, 01:40 AM   #31
propita
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Janeway was, at heart, a scientist. Yeah, she was good at...everything...but she shouldn't have been. The writers (directors, studio, etc) did a disservice to the show by insisting she change for the storyline instead of allowing the establishment of a character who reacts and changes to situations.

Chakotay was, among other things, a tactician, having taught it at the Academy and then added Maquis tactics to his repertoire. In times of battle, his tactical advice should have predominated. Again, had they established and continued an actual character, he would have appeared more vital to the ship.

What's sad is that some fanfic can create and maintain consistency in the characters better than the show's writers. But then, fanfic authors aren't having the studio insist on bs crap that really doesn't belong.
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Old June 21 2013, 04:51 AM   #32
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

That, nor do they have to put up with Producers who insist on turning said Scientist character into a flawless Mary Sue (Jeri Taylor to Janeway).
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Old June 21 2013, 05:04 AM   #33
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

If Janeway needed a moral compass external from herself, then she shouldn't have been Captain.
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Old June 21 2013, 05:12 AM   #34
propita
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Everyone, at some some point, needs to "check their gauges," make sure everything's working right, with someone else. "Am I seeing this right" type of thing. Particularly someone under chronic stress. Yes, she should have her own moral compass and not be easily swayed (Ransom was the incarnation of her fear of this), and exactly when she needed to check her gauges, she became Ransom and tossed Chakotay, and threatened to toss Tuvok.
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Old June 21 2013, 06:42 AM   #35
Anwar
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Again, if they had just made Janeway the Senior Science Officer who took over when the Captain and XO were killed then there wouldn't have been any worries over her needing some external checks because we'd understand she wasn't the Captain in the first place.
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Old June 21 2013, 08:28 AM   #36
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Except that would undermine Jeri Ryan's vision for Janeway to be the perfect mary sue protagonist in every episode.
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Old June 21 2013, 05:46 PM   #37
Anwar
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Jeri Taylor, not Jeri Ryan.

And that the show had Exec producers who couldn't agree on anything (Mike Piller and Taylor) was something that made it a troubled production right from the start.

They should've listened to Berman and waited until DS9 was done to do VOY.
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Old June 22 2013, 01:33 AM   #38
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

They should have halved the budget on Enterprise and Voyager both and done them at the same time, straight after DS9 finished.

America was weaned off Star trek as it slowly fizzeled out of the public concern.

If they had three shows, airing all over the place, they would have captured the attention of new viewers who would then move parallely into the other two series running.

Who cares if they had one good show that no one was watching, when they could have had three shitty shows that no one could get away from.
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Old June 22 2013, 01:56 AM   #39
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Bad casting.

The choice of actor had a subtle influence on how they developed the character, as often happens in TV shows.

If they'd had a more badass actor to play the leader of the Marquis, the character of Chakotay would have been much better.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:08 AM   #40
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Eddington is quite ugly though so I'm glad it wasn't him.
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Old June 22 2013, 03:49 AM   #41
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

teacake wrote: View Post
Eddington is quite ugly though so I'm glad it wasn't him.
Ugly? The choice was supposed to be unlikelily heroic.
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Old June 22 2013, 06:48 AM   #42
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Well the problem with Chakotay not differentiating himself from Janeway is a microcosm of the whole dynamic of the Maquis and Starfleet crew members. They were too similar. Hell, most of the former Maquis were former Starfleet officers, who were drummed out or left on their own for one reason or another. Well, except for Seska.

But other than a few episodes of grumbling, how were the Maquis really all that different from the star fleet crew? They had similar principles, wore the same uniform, and with Cardassia on the other side of the galaxy, the main reason for their conflict was rendered irrelevant.

Now, with Chakotay in particular, he had a lot of potential, but it was wasted. First off, he was from some unnamed generic native American tribe. They should have made him of a real tribe with real traditions. Instead, we got a mish mash of all kinds of tribes. When they made his tribe descended from aliens, it just cheapened his Native American heritage that much more.

Second, I also agree he should have been more like a toned down Edington, and Janeway and Chakotay should have had a history of being enemies prior to being stranded. Sort of like maybe Chakotay and Janeway served together, and Chakotay somehow betrayed Janeway, or tricked her somehow, when he joined the Maquis. That would have been more interesting where you essentially have two captains who don't get along, but are forced to work together, but we didn't have that very long. Chakotay became very friendly and loyal to Janeway very early on...maybe a little too soon. It would have been nice to see two people who hate each other gradually respect each other, and then become friends, and maybe even lovers at the very end.

Which leads to another thing, the Seven\Chakotay thing was straight out of nowhere, and ruined chakotay's character, to me.
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Old June 22 2013, 11:27 AM   #43
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Chakotay is just like a dog, a golden retriever. That's why Janeway likes him so much.
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Old June 22 2013, 11:49 AM   #44
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

That and he hid bottles of rare wine all over the ship.

Oh my.

He claimed in Shattered that it was because of the temporal prime directive that he couldn't explain where he was hiding the wine even though it's technically hoarding and Janeway should have keel hauled him, but what if it was the same bottle which he hid over and over again a thousand times in a previous adventure and they were all still on board Voyager all over the place inside the walls and bulkheads.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:00 PM   #45
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Re: Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Of course all earth wine is rare in their circumstances. It could be a cask of goon stashed in one of those morgue tubes and someone will take to it like it's Chateau Delicious. That's how spam happened.
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