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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 21 2013, 10:10 AM   #196
Belz...
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
That's an exaggeration: people like the new movies and naturally defend them when others make bloated claims about how objectively bad they are. Again, this does not indicate obsession or devotion.

See post #176.
Yeah, sure enough it doesn't say what you claim it says.

CDR6 wrote: View Post
3) Yes there is still a stigma attached to Star Trek. (See also "Nerds".)
Can you demonstrate that ? I believe I have made my point with the movies' gross and reviews.
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Old June 21 2013, 01:48 PM   #197
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
That's an exaggeration: people like the new movies and naturally defend them when others make bloated claims about how objectively bad they are. Again, this does not indicate obsession or devotion.
Say waht you want, but the second anyone questions or offers opinion on the shortcomings of nuTrek, in comes the slams of TOS, TOS movies, the actors, etc. You are free to search pages one and two for evidence as visible as the screen in front of you.

Yeah, sure enough it doesn't say what you claim it says.
Selective perception, since Bill's response was:

BillJ wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Hit the brakes. Yminale is correct: any contracted production company can be booted from a film, as Viacom/Paramount does indeed own all things Star Trek, and can do whatever they wish to it (including bad things such as TOS-R and nuTrek). Whether or not BR has any ivolvement in a hypothetical third film is irrelevant--if P/V decide to pull the plug, it will happen.

You're right, it's a brilliant idea to boot the production company that gave you the two highest-grossing Trek features ever and have penetrated international markets in a way Star Trek never has before.
Exactly as stated.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:38 PM   #198
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
That's an exaggeration: people like the new movies and naturally defend them when others make bloated claims about how objectively bad they are. Again, this does not indicate obsession or devotion.
Say waht you want, but the second anyone questions or offers opinion on the shortcomings of nuTrek, in comes the slams of TOS, TOS movies, the actors, etc. You are free to search pages one and two for evidence as visible as the screen in front of you.
I think you're misreading what's mostly a backlash against people making greatly exaggerated claims about TOS' progressiveness and dubious claims of possessing the definitive interpretation of Roddenberry's "vision" --whilst wearing heavily rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia-- as bashing of TOS and Roddenberry when they're not. Also, there's a backlash against people hypocritically and irrationally criticizing certain aspects of STiD while overlooking those same qualities in series or films of the past that they enjoyed.

TOS was a fairly progressive series for its day, but it still had many of the negative trappings of 60s TV. But that's understandable, and the show can still be appreciated for the efforts it made at improving things and for the entertainment value it still provides.

And every time some numpty starts babbling on about knowing the ONE TRUE interpretation of Goddenberry's vision like some half-assed preacher angrily waving his personally revised copy of the Bible with passages crossed out and replaced by handwritten notes in the margins, I just tune them out. Roddenberry was a good storyteller with some progressive ideas, and I'm thankful to him for creating Star Trek, but he didn't make the original series alone, he also had some pretty negative behaviors and off the wall ideas, was perfectly willing to drastically alter "canon" if it suited his needs; which is fine but contrary to the fanon notion that he was some sort of guardian of an inviolable canon, and his "vision" often varied wildly from one season/movie or iteration of Trek to the next.

So, what you're seeing is not so much an unfair criticism of TOS and Roddenberry, it's a criticism of the hyperbolic and unrealistic idealized image of them some fans have in their heads.
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Old June 21 2013, 03:20 PM   #199
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
Meh, the TOS forum is as bad - worse, really - where nuTrek is concerned.

That seems to be rather why dedicated fan forums for particular subjects are as popular as they are here on TrekBBS and across the Internet in general.

Go ahead, drop by a Mustang forum and talk up Camaros - or vice versa
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Old June 21 2013, 03:26 PM   #200
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
Meh, the TOS forum is as bad - worse, really - where nuTrek is concerned.

That seems to be rather why dedicated fan forums for particular subjects are as popular as they are here on TrekBBS and across the Internet in general.

Go ahead, drop by a Mustang forum and talk up Camaros - or vice versa
Well that'd be just silly. Everyone knows MOPAR rules!!!
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Old June 21 2013, 03:26 PM   #201
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

BillJ wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Hit the brakes. Yminale is correct: any contracted production company can be booted from a film, as Viacom/Paramount does indeed own all things Star Trek, and can do whatever they wish to it (including bad things such as TOS-R and nuTrek). Whether or not BR has any ivolvement in a hypothetical third film is irrelevant--if P/V decide to pull the plug, it will happen.

You're right, it's a brilliant idea to boot the production company that gave you the two highest-grossing Trek features ever and have penetrated international markets in a way Star Trek never has before.
Exactly as stated.
Did someone either mean to quote a different post from me or another poster? I'm not sure how acknowledging that Bad Robot made the two highest-grossing Star Trek films is bad-mouthing TOS?
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Old June 21 2013, 03:57 PM   #202
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Ovation wrote: View Post
Well that'd be just silly. Everyone knows MOPAR rules!!!
LOL, you're cute that you think that!

I think after a while the hypocrisy of slamming the new movie for what the old movies and episodes have done has finally driven me up a wall and just proves that there are no true deal-breaker complaints. It's silly.
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Old June 21 2013, 04:15 PM   #203
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Kruezerman wrote:
I think after a while the hypocrisy of slamming the new movie for what the old movies and episodes have done has finally driven me up a wall and just proves that there are no true deal-breaker complaints. It's silly.
What about people slamming Nemesis or The Final Frontier?

It's entirely possible to judge each incarnation of Star Trek on its own merits without the need for added caveats just in case a 40+ year old episode had something similar.
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Old June 21 2013, 06:01 PM   #204
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote:
I think after a while the hypocrisy of slamming the new movie for what the old movies and episodes have done has finally driven me up a wall and just proves that there are no true deal-breaker complaints. It's silly.
What about people slamming Nemesis or The Final Frontier?

It's entirely possible to judge each incarnation of Star Trek on its own merits without the need for added caveats just in case a 40+ year old episode had something similar.
Those two movies were either poorly written or just plain boring. It is indeed, but not to this extreme where people are writing it off as a disaster.
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Old June 21 2013, 08:42 PM   #205
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Yeah, but there are some episodes that are poorly written and / or plain boring so therefore it's not a valid criticism.
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Old June 21 2013, 09:43 PM   #206
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Devon wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
Uhm Viacom/Paramount OWNS Star Trek
It's actually CBS that owns Star Trek... just sayin.
They both do.

Paramount owns the JJ Abram's version of the current feature film Star Trek franchise.

CBS owns all the previous versions of Star Trek (all 6 TV series: TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and the TOS based and TNG based feature films.)

That said, BOTH companies have worked together to cross promote where possible and help maximize exposure and profit for one another across the board. I also think CBS is waiting to do anything new (production wise) with Star Trek on TV, until the current series of Paramount Star Trek films have run their full course. Paramount and CBS could always strike a deal and produce a new TV series more in line with the JJ Abrams film universe; or CBS could bring something out with ties to the 'original' universe - or they could just continue to remarket the 700+ hours of TV episodes and the TOS/TNG films going forward.

Time will tell.
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Old June 21 2013, 09:48 PM   #207
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

CBS owns it all. That is why Paramount has to pay a licensing fee to them to make Star Trek.
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Old June 21 2013, 10:02 PM   #208
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Say waht you want, but the second anyone questions or offers opinion on the shortcomings of nuTrek, in comes the slams of TOS, TOS movies, the actors, etc.
You are in error. When TOS is "slammed", it's in response to a false sense of nostalgia like "Trek was better in the beginning". I don't see people say old Trek was bad therefore you should love new Trek. They say "you criticise new Trek for X, while old Trek had plenty of X."

You are free to search pages one and two for evidence as visible as the screen in front of you
Your claim, your work.

Exactly as stated.
No, it's not. Yminale said Bad Robot can easily be replaced. BillJ simply responded that it isn't going to happen. You're interpreting it to mean it can't happen, which is not what BillJ said. You are, again, in error.
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Old June 21 2013, 10:16 PM   #209
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Back to the topic, I've been a fan for about 40 years.

Maybe some casual Trek fans who aren't immersed in it 24/7 like some other folks are a little turned off by what they expect to encounter at the theater. Fans in costumes and all that crap.

Good job, fandom.

Others won't bother going to see the movie at the theater because we've been turned off by the amateur critics on this forum and other places online.

Good job, fandom.

If the movie suffers at the box office, it's not because it's a bad movie. It's because people can't deal with the fans. Personally, I'm going to wait for the video release.

I saw IM3 at the theater, and I'll probably see MOS there too. But these days, Star Trek fans just get on my nerves.
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Old June 21 2013, 10:19 PM   #210
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
They say "you criticise new Trek for X, while old Trek had plenty of X."
Yeah, people should stop criticising Nemesis.
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