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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 21 2013, 01:59 AM   #181
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

The word "prove" is being misused quite a bit by the oldTrek folks this evening. It doesn't mean what they think it means.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:06 AM   #182
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post

It's good to know that hate can defeat anything, including logic.
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

Don't blind yourself with on-bended-knee devoiton to nuTrek,
That's enough. Discuss the topic at hand, but the personal digs need to stop.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:08 AM   #183
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

It's good to know that hate can defeat anything, including logic.
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

Don't blind yourself with on-bended-knee devoiton to nuTrek,
That's enough. Discuss the topic at hand, but the personal digs need to stop.
You're right, my comment was uncalled for and I edited the post accordingly.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:09 AM   #184
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post

The general idea was that Spider-Man would be rebooted after three films
No, that was not the general idea. At the time of SM3's release, Raimi was discussing a possible Spider-Man 4, while Maguire said he would return if Raimi was the director. The film was not going to be a reboot. When the bottom fell out of that chapter, it was decided that a reboot was in order, thus it proves the point: if a series as successful as the Raimi Spider-Man films was rebooted in favor of another vision, Star Trek can face the same fate.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:11 AM   #185
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Yminale wrote: View Post
Ok If the average cost of a ticket is $5 (it's probably higher) and the current gross is $420 million and ignoring repeat viewings and piracy, you only get 84 million attendance.
Yes, but that's still not wholly relevant. I was simply illustrating a point via the fact that the movie was seen by a lot of people.

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Hit the brakes. Yminale is correct: any contracted production company can be booted from a film, as Viacom/Paramount does indeed own all things Star Trek, and can do whatever they wish to it (including bad things such as TOS-R and nuTrek). Whether or not BR has any ivolvement in a hypothetical third film is irrelevant--if P/V decide to pull the plug, it will happen.
I don't think anyone is arguing against that. But it won't happen just yet.

Superman Returns was rebooted because they wanted to incorporate the character in the "Nolanized" DC Comics film universe
No, Man of Steel is not in the same universe.

See my post on the Raimi Spider-Man films, which were leaps and bounds above the box office of nuTrek, but that series was rebooted with no hesitation.
Yeah, because the director and the star both walked.

Don't blind yourself with on-bended-knee devoiton to nuTrek
These kinds of comments only serve to highlight your bias against the new movies, though, if you effectively say that anyone who disagrees with you on any topic related to those movies must automatically hold a position and opinion diametrically opposed to yours.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:13 AM   #186
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
When the bottom fell out of that chapter...
Define 'bottom' falling out? The movie did $890 million dollars worldwide and $100 million dollars more than Spiderman 2.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman3.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman2.htm

Considering the reboot did $140 million less worldwide, I think it's debatable whether rebooting the franchise was the proper course of action.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman4.htm
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Old June 21 2013, 02:18 AM   #187
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
I don't think anyone is arguing against that. But it won't happen just yet.
See post #176.


No, Man of Steel is not in the same universe.
Nolan's vision is the face of DC films going forward. From what I understand, films such as the Reynolds Green Lantern are not a part of what is alleged to come (ex. Wonder Woman, Justice League, Aquaman, etc.).

These kinds of comments only serve to highlight your bias against the new movies, though, if you effectively say that anyone who disagrees with you on any topic related to those movies must automatically hold a position and opinion diametrically opposed to yours.
Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:21 AM   #188
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post
Define 'bottom' falling out?
Bottom fell out is another way of saying the Raimi productions reached their end.


Considering the reboot did $140 million less worldwide, I think it's debatable whether rebooting the franchise was the proper course of action.
Missing the point, which is the studio can dump a production or production company in favor of a reboot anytime they choose to do so.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:22 AM   #189
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

Missing the point, which is the studio can dump a production or production company in favor of a reboot anytime they choose to do so.
I never said they couldn't, I said they wouldn't.
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Old June 21 2013, 02:30 AM   #190
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Yminale wrote: View Post
Uhm Viacom/Paramount OWNS Star Trek
It's actually CBS that owns Star Trek... just sayin.
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Old June 21 2013, 04:15 AM   #191
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

pfft The Spiderman reboot stank, imo. They really lowed the bar with that one.
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Old June 21 2013, 05:56 AM   #192
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
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As much as I hate Abrams... (He has made a boat load of money with Star Trek.)
Is the bit in parentheses an explanation for the preceding part ?

Ah, no. Not so much...
And that's your opinion. Objectively it seems to be doing fine. And in terms of story, it's entirely subjective whether one thinks a story is good or not.

Then why does the movie going public still attach a stigma to it?
I don't think there's a stigma at all. And there's 400 million+ reasons why I think so.
1) Just giving credit where credit is due.
2) Yes, opinion... on this board and else where the jury is still out.
3) Yes there is still a stigma attached to Star Trek. (See also "Nerds".)

Hope that clears things up somewhat.
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Old June 21 2013, 08:33 AM   #193
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

I don't get the appeal of Man of Steel at all. I thought it was a bore.
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Old June 21 2013, 08:34 AM   #194
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post
The biggest thing is that Paramount is seeing a growth in International markets with Star Trek Into Darkness. They won't do an about face now when those markets are showing an increased interest in this version of Trek.
Maybe they'll do an international theatrical release and make the US wait twelve months for the direct-to-DVD.

CDR6 wrote: View Post
2) Yes, opinion... on this board and else where the jury is still out.
The survey in the grading thread seems to show that the jury has already agreed it was a success?
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Old June 21 2013, 09:32 AM   #195
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
A movies[sic] has to make double (actually its[sic] closer to triple now) it's[sic] production cost because what it[sic] is usually reported is the Gross Box office.
No. This simply isn't true, although people seem to think that if it's repeated often enough on the Internet it must be.
While the friendly discussion () on the artistic merits of big films like Trek, Iron Man, and Man of Steel are debatable, it still comes down to the subjective matter of taste. And I think we've all been guilty at points of using argumentum ad populum when it aligns in favor with our subjective view, and pointing out the fallacy when we don't care for a particular film, tv show, sports team, soda pop, brand of car, political party, etc.

But, surely, the economics of filmmaking are not as opaque?
I think my first expousure to that idea was way back when Art Buchwald won a suit against Paramount over "Coming To America" that would give him a percentage of the film's "net profits" . The film made $288 million by the way.

But, because of "Hollywood Accounting", Paramount said the film made no profit, and therefore Buchwald would get squat. Courts didn't agree with that assessment, and rather than have the dirty secrets of Hollywood filmmaking in regards to financing, profits, etc, aired for all to see (and open the entire stuidio system up for potential litigation from other parties that profit share) Paramount instead chose to settle with Buchwald, for the "undisclosed amount" that seems so prevelent when big business finds it cheaper to pay "hush money" regardless of the industry.

Superman Returns made money. Raimi's Spider films made tons, and the new one hasn't done too shabby (more importantly, Sony has to pump out Spidey films at regular intervals just to retain the rights to do so, and rebooting the series seemed the best course at that point, unless they wanted Roger Corman to make one on the cheap just to retain the rights) Man of Steel will also make a princely sum.

And yes, Virginia, Star Trek Into Darkness will also make money (spoiler alert: it already has!). The studio can go with anybody they want to make the next one, but it's gonna be Bad Robot...

Now as to why someone who would go to see IM3 and MoS but not Trek, I can only speak from personal experience. Not enough spare time or cash. Try dragging a spouse or a significant other out to the movies 3 times within several weeks! Hire a baby-sitter, etc. For some, money might be tight, or the planning is a hassle. In my case, I just haven't gotten around to Iron Man 3 yet. I only saw the Avengers in theater, the rest I blind bought on Blu-ray and watched them all a week before the Avengers! (I admired Marvel Studio's ballsy plan of a shared movie universe, which seems like a no-brainer in the comic world, but for film making on the big scale, incredibly complex and audacious. I've always been a DC guy, but this won me over, even with some less than stellar movies in "Phase One"). I'll just buy IM3 when it comes out.

I imagine for some, Trek just fell in that same crack: "I'll get around to it!". Me? I already pre-ordered it, and the disc sales, PPV and rentals will also rack up great sales.

Now, if this is "Why isn't the movie I like and think is better than the other films not making as much as the other films are?" question, do what I do and propose or dismiss whatever logical fallacy you choose! It helps me keep my cognitive dissonance buried deep inside!!

Last edited by Tommunist; June 21 2013 at 10:06 AM. Reason: derp! again!
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