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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 21 2013, 12:25 AM   #466
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post

I guess my perspective must be skewed living so close to the beach and seeing women in bikinis walking down the street all the time, because that scene did not stick out as some excessive display of skin and cleavage to me at all.
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Old June 21 2013, 12:32 AM   #467
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

teacake wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post

I guess my perspective must be skewed living so close to the beach and seeing women in bikinis walking down the street all the time, because that scene did not stick out as some excessive display of skin and cleavage to me at all.
Don't let T'Bonz see that. Has nothing to do with clothing but it won't make her happy.
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Old June 21 2013, 12:37 AM   #468
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Sure, the scene could have been done with her back to the camera, but I don't even understand the need. OMG, women have breasts. Film at eleven. Making her turn her back to not show her shameful covered breasts sounds like something out of the Taliban.
Yeah, it's not a big deal but that doesn't change the fact that, as you admit, it wasn't necessary. Men like looking at tits. Women get frustrated that men like looking at tits. The cosmic ballet goes on. Mind you, I think most women are just rolling their eyes. Nobody really thinks it's a big deal, just more of the same.
What I said is that you get a lot of women in diverse roles. You also get men in diverse roles. You get lots of men AND women in diverse roles. The nature of the Trek setting does not preclude showing women in a better light, it simply isn't implemented. With more women, we should see women in diverse roles.
There are women in diverse roles in ST09 and STiD. There are several bridge officers, women working in engineering, women as medical staff in sickbay, women security officers guarding the brig, women flag officers/captains/XOs at the Starfleet briefing, Uhura as the communications officer/linguistics specialist, Marcus as a science officer/weapons specialist...

Nyota Uhura - Communications Officer/Linguist
Carol Marcus - Science Officer/Weapons Specialist
Hannity - Operations Officer
Darwin - Navigator
Madeline - Science Officer
Christine Chapel - Nurse
Unknown Female Bridge Officer (White Hair) - Possibly meant to be Ensign Brackett, since the credits writers or IMDb wrongly assigned that name to the previously named (in ST09) Hannity, who was also in STiD
Well done! Chapel is not in the movie and is no longer on the ship though so she doesn't count, Gaila is most likely dead and wasn't assigned to the Enterprise in any event, and there was but a single woman in security. You also scraped the bottom of the barrel with two characters so obscure that even IMDB struggles to tell them apart and these are our top six (or our only six)? So, we have six principle male characters before we movie onto Pike, Khan, and Marcus any one of whom has 10 times more lines than characters 4-6 on your list added together. At least GoT uses its numerous women as part of the plot, often using them to drive the plot, and lets them speak. Diversity works but the STiD top six is pretty poor.

Lol, no, like I said, lol, given his track record and depiction onscreen, lol, Scotty is the evidence of Keenser's competence, lol. Scotty would not allow someone who could not perform the job superbly and be safe around his engines, period. Nor would Keenser be his best friend and confidant if Scotty couldn't talk shop with him.
Tut tut - are we getting a bit tetchy there? That's still assumption, not evidence. Scotty might have just promoted his mate. I can make that same assumption about any one of those women working in engineering or do I have to assume they aren't any good because an 18 year old boy got promoted above them?



LOL
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Old June 21 2013, 12:37 AM   #469
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

teacake wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I guess my perspective must be skewed living so close to the beach and seeing women in bikinis walking down the street all the time, because that scene did not stick out as some excessive display of skin and cleavage to me at all.
Yeah, but you're a chauvinist with your Alice Eve/Janeway avatar, so what do you know?

mos6507 wrote: View Post
If the film tried to send an anti-chauvanism message, it's doing a pretty poor job of it since now it has spawned all these members with Alice Eve avatars.
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Old June 21 2013, 12:54 AM   #470
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

If mos6597 does not like it he/she should just TURN AROUND.

Also does T'Bonz hate The Cloud Minders or something?
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Old June 21 2013, 12:59 AM   #471
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

teacake wrote: View Post
If mos6597 does not like it he/she should just TURN AROUND.

Also does T'Bonz hate The Cloud Minders or something?
IIRC, she abhors the whole Spock/Droxine interaction, particularly the casual discussion of pon farr.
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Old June 21 2013, 01:02 AM   #472
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Sooooooo....

The Hangover III opened one week after STiD, but we're supposed to be outraged and upset that STiD is the most misogynistic film of the summer because of a two-second bikini scene?

Perspective - It's been lost by some...

...yep...
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Old June 21 2013, 01:02 AM   #473
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Droxine is so 60's looking she cracks me up.
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Old June 21 2013, 01:03 AM   #474
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Ovation wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
If mos6597 does not like it he/she should just TURN AROUND.

Also does T'Bonz hate The Cloud Minders or something?
IIRC, she abhors the whole Spock/Droxine interaction, particularly the casual discussion of pon farr.
Yeah, that was bogus.
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Old June 21 2013, 01:17 AM   #475
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Opus wrote: View Post
Sooooooo....

The Hangover III opened one week after STiD, but we're supposed to be outraged and upset that STiD is the most misogynistic film of the summer because of a two-second bikini scene?

Perspective - It's been lost by some...

...yep...
The problem with Hangover is that the characters are all so awful. Didn't one of them have unprotected anal sex with a transexual prostitute just before his wedding? I bet his wife chuckled when he recommended she get a HIV test the day after the honeymoon. A tit shot pales by comparison to that gem.

I do like the monkey though.
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Old June 21 2013, 01:20 AM   #476
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Can't say I know. I've never seen The Hangover movies...
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Old June 21 2013, 01:23 AM   #477
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
There are women in diverse roles in ST09 and STiD. There are several bridge officers, women working in engineering, women as medical staff in sickbay, women security officers guarding the brig, women flag officers/captains/XOs at the Starfleet briefing, Uhura as the communications officer/linguistics specialist, Marcus as a science officer/weapons specialist...

Nyota Uhura - Communications Officer/Linguist
Carol Marcus - Science Officer/Weapons Specialist
Hannity - Operations Officer
Darwin - Navigator
Madeline - Science Officer
Christine Chapel - Nurse
Unknown Female Bridge Officer (White Hair) - Possibly meant to be Ensign Brackett, since the credits writers or IMDb wrongly assigned that name to the previously named (in ST09) Hannity, who was also in STiD
Well done! Chapel is not in the movie and is no longer on the ship though so she doesn't count, Gaila is most likely dead and wasn't assigned to the Enterprise in any event, and there was but a single woman in security. You also scraped the bottom of the barrel with two characters so obscure that even IMDB struggles to tell them apart and these are our top six (or our only six)? So, we have six principle male characters before we movie onto Pike, Khan, and Marcus any one of whom has 10 times more lines than characters 4-6 on your list added together.


I said there were several women serving in diverse roles aboard the Enterprise in ST09 and STiD. You said name six. I named six, added a possible name for a seventh, and gave speculation why Gaila might be aboard as well. Then you start adding a bunch of bullshit qualifiers even though I met your challenge.

Christine Chapel counts because I said ST09 and STiD. She was serving aboard Enterprise in ST09.

You have no idea what ship Gaila was assigned to. It was never mentioned, so you can't rule out Enterprise. But regardless, I didn't add her to the main list because I was just speculating there and had no proof.

So what if if there was a crediting mistake? The actress (Amanda Foreman, an Abrams' regular) was named Hannity in ST09. There was supposed to be a new female bridge officer named Ensign Brackett in STiD. So, I speculated that since they're both operations division officers in red, the confusion might have been there and the white haired officer might be Brackett. It's not as if it's some gotcha moment for you, since I pointed it out myself in the post.

How many times does it have to be spelled out for you that they weren't going to screw with the established crew from TOS? There's Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, Chekov. That's the main cast and focus. That's always going to be the main cast and focus in a TOS reboot. Deal with it. They can shuffle the characters around in prominence, like they've done with Uhura taking over McCoy's level of attention vs. TOS. They can add a few characters here and there, like Carol, but the more you add the more you take away from the main cast, and that's before you get to adding character development for the villains like Marcus and Khan.

At least GoT uses its numerous women as part of the plot, often using them to drive the plot, and lets them speak.
Game of Thrones has also had thirty+ hours of airtime versus ST09's and STiD's four+ hours. GoT had an established novel series where there were numerous female characters, Star Trek and Into Darkness had TOS from the 60s with a seven member main cast, six of which were men. I bet if you gave them equal time to develop an expanded secondary cast, things would more than balance out in terms of dialogue and activities for female characters, because even in that four hours, the male to female ratio onscreen is (estimating) roughly the same as GoT. Not to mention none of them are prostitutes or get brutally murdered by sadist serial killer child kings, so they have that going for them.

Lol, no, like I said, lol, given his track record and depiction onscreen, lol, Scotty is the evidence of Keenser's competence, lol. Scotty would not allow someone who could not perform the job superbly and be safe around his engines, period. Nor would Keenser be his best friend and confidant if Scotty couldn't talk shop with him.
Tut tut - are we getting a bit tetchy there? That's still assumption, not evidence. Scotty might have just promoted his mate.

LOL
Not tetchy; calling out your condescending overuse of LOL in multiple posts, which you did again.

There's nothing in Scotty's character background in either TOS or the new movies that would indicate he would engage in that kind of favoritism of an incompetent engineer, especially when it could endanger the ship and crew. Even his nephew had to start at the bottom and perform better than anyone else on his engineering crew, a fact that cost him his life in TWoK when he bravely stayed behind to help as all the other trainees ran.
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Old June 21 2013, 03:14 AM   #478
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

The Keeper wrote: View Post
Can you say, 'Yes, it was also about Carol dressing down Kirk for his sexist leering'?
Nope, not with any convinction - IMO she had no grounds for indignation as Kirk had no reason to expect her to undress - the overalls go on over the regular uniform, and she'd not said or done anything I recognised as a sign she was about to change.

Kirk looked as stupified as I felt on first viewing.

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Women get frustrated that men like looking at tits.
Not I - amused or pleased depending on circumstances. There's no harm in looking and if one doesn't want one's tits looked at don't put them on show in public places...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Mind you, I think most women are just rolling their eyes. Nobody really thinks it's a big deal, just more of the same.
Eyeroll is it for me; I don't mind the nudity but I find the setup for it in this case so silly it irritates me. YMMV.
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Old June 21 2013, 04:00 AM   #479
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

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Which is the exact premise of my Fem Trekz show, which is to some degree a reaction against the unprofessional animal-house atmosphere established in JJ Trek.
Yeah, I took a look at that.

I'll bet J.J. is shakin'.
Did you notice how 'Trekz' is spelled with a 'Z'? That's how we know its serious and hip all at the same time.
fff
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Old June 21 2013, 04:03 AM   #480
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

And the award for most ironic post goes to:

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
If the gender roles were completely flipped in Trek so that we have only one black dude and a blond scientist among the main cast I wonder how people would react to the gender balance?
The person who argues vociferously for percentage quotas in background extras and then uses the term "gender roles" to refer to sex.
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