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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 20 2013, 05:16 PM   #121
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

CDR6 wrote: View Post
Ah, no. Not so much...
It absolutely is. This is why most Trek fans like it.
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Old June 20 2013, 05:32 PM   #122
CDR6
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post
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Ah, no. Not so much...
Can you actually show where the translation fails? Most TOS films were in the top-10 the year they we made as were Generations and First Contact.

TOS was never an ensemble piece, it was always the Kirk and Spock show and the Kirk and Spock show has always translated well to the big-screen.
They all made money, ergo studio wise, they were a sucess. Story wise, it's another matter, as we've seen here on these pages.
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Old June 20 2013, 05:35 PM   #123
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
CDR6 wrote: View Post
Ah, no. Not so much...
It absolutely is. This is why most Trek fans like it.
Then why does the movie going public still attach a stigma to it?
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Old June 20 2013, 05:35 PM   #124
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

CDR6 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
CDR6 wrote: View Post
Ah, no. Not so much...
Can you actually show where the translation fails? Most TOS films were in the top-10 the year they we made as were Generations and First Contact.

TOS was never an ensemble piece, it was always the Kirk and Spock show and the Kirk and Spock show has always translated well to the big-screen.
They all made money, ergo studio wise, they were a sucess. Story wise, it's another matter, as we've seen here on these pages.
We've seen some people say they'd rather it be on TV. But if you look at the ratings the latest film has generated here and on other websites, I'd say it was a successful Star Trek movie with both ticket buyers and critics.

I'd say it made a successful transition from from one medium to the other, starting with The Wrath of Khan.
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Old June 20 2013, 05:49 PM   #125
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

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I thought of an alternative explination as well. Trek just couldn't compete for teenagers with limited movie going $$ and time who had the choice of: Trek, Iron Man and Fast Furious. IM and Fast and Furious just more appealing choices for the younger crowd.
Makes sense, though I'm sure a crowded marketplace isn't the only reason for those movies doing better.
No big deal, but that was actually DarthTom that said that, not me.
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Old June 20 2013, 06:00 PM   #126
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
More movie-goers disagree with you than agree with you by the only real standard of measurement. It's illogical to assert that "most people would agree" about the relative quality of two X-Men movies if the behavior of movie-goers contradicts that. What you're asserting is no more than "I've heard more people say this than say that."
That's not necessarily true. I saw X-Men 3 in the movie theater and X-Men First Class on DVD. So if you are counting my preference by dollars then you would say I preferred X-Men 3 when in actuallity I clearly feel that First Class is the far superior film.

I just happen to watch a majority of movies by DVD these days because its much more convenient and fiscally prudent. (Monthly rental plan)
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Old June 20 2013, 06:34 PM   #127
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

KGator wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
More movie-goers disagree with you than agree with you by the only real standard of measurement. It's illogical to assert that "most people would agree" about the relative quality of two X-Men movies if the behavior of movie-goers contradicts that. What you're asserting is no more than "I've heard more people say this than say that."
That's not necessarily true.
It's true enough. Anecdotal exceptions don't make the case.
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Old June 20 2013, 06:52 PM   #128
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Hey folks, STID is killing what DREDD made at the box office!!! Not to mention Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Green Hornet, Green Lantern, Thor and The Incredible Hulk. Not all Superhero films are more popular than Star Trek!

But seriously, if Paramount wants to increase the visibility of the Star Trek franchise the only way to do it is though other types of media. The most obvious would be a television series. They could also do theme park tie ins, cartoons, etc, to try and reach younger viewers. The question is twofold. First, does Paramount want to make that kind of commitment and second, can they do so without screwing it up. Remember, Hollywood creates far more failures than successes.
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Old June 20 2013, 06:58 PM   #129
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

KGator wrote: View Post

But seriously, if Paramount wants to increase the visibility of the Star Trek franchise the only way to do it is though other types of media. The most obvious would be a television series. They could also do theme park tie ins, cartoons, etc, to try and reach younger viewers. The question is twofold. First, does Paramount want to make that kind of commitment and second, can they do so without screwing it up. Remember, Hollywood creates far more failures than successes.
Animation is really the way to go. It's cheaper than live-action and can be pointed at children and adults simultaneously.
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Old June 20 2013, 07:01 PM   #130
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post
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BillJ wrote: View Post

Can you actually show where the translation fails? Most TOS films were in the top-10 the year they we made as were Generations and First Contact.

TOS was never an ensemble piece, it was always the Kirk and Spock show and the Kirk and Spock show has always translated well to the big-screen.
They all made money, ergo studio wise, they were a sucess. Story wise, it's another matter, as we've seen here on these pages.
We've seen some people say they'd rather it be on TV. But if you look at the ratings the latest film has generated here and on other websites, I'd say it was a successful Star Trek movie with both ticket buyers and critics.

I'd say it made a successful transition from from one medium to the other, starting with The Wrath of Khan.
If we set aside TMP and go with 2 through 6, I would almost agree with you. If we strip away all of the sub plots and go with just the story line we see that they have roots in the TV series. 2,3, and 4 are a story arc of Spock starting with the series' Space Seed epsode. While 5 and 6 were typical of epsodic TOS.

For sake of discussion, (A "film" is typically about the main character's defining moment, while "tv" is typically more or less a day to day adventure(s) of our hero and friends.)

In this case we have a more episodic approach, abet on a larger canvas. TMP is more filmic, and the jury is still out on the Abrams trek. (Two films are not easy to pull a trend from.)
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Old June 20 2013, 07:05 PM   #131
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
KGator wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
More movie-goers disagree with you than agree with you by the only real standard of measurement. It's illogical to assert that "most people would agree" about the relative quality of two X-Men movies if the behavior of movie-goers contradicts that. What you're asserting is no more than "I've heard more people say this than say that."
That's not necessarily true.
It's true enough. Anecdotal exceptions don't make the case.
No its not true. Your myopic definition of which movie is "better" is simply not valid. All you can show is which movie made more money at the box office. That's akin to saying that Wes Welker is a better receiver than Chad Johnson because he caught more passes. Or that Robert Horry is a better NBA player than Larry Bird because he has more NBA titles.

Face it, you phrased your statement incorrectly and have been called to task on it by many on this thread. But now you are simply too stubborn to admit that inserting any arbitrary factor about a movie isolated and out of context with everything else is not a sound way of creating a definitive appraisal of a movies "quality". That's about as factual as saying "More young children are familiar with Dora the Exporer than the Muppets so a movie about Dora would do better than another Muppet movie."

Perhaps you can again why we need except your "standard definition of measurement" that has been universally accepted by the population. Can you show me some links to some people or entities not involved with this discussion have made similar claims about the universal acceptance of box office dollars and movie quality? I anxiously await you showing me that I am mistaken and these references actually abound but I have simply not recognized them.
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Old June 20 2013, 08:11 PM   #132
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

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Is the problem Paramount or a select group of fandom that can't let their vision of Star Trek go?[

To claim a movie that has made over $400 million worldwide is "Paramount trying to jam a square peg into a round hole" seems off the mark.
Different global reality now, where the Nolan Batman films, Iron Man and The Avengers set the new standard of what can be achieved with fantasy films. In this era, nuTrek still fails to reach that top shelf of success despite the JJ car wax/parade fireworks trappings--allegedly designed to expand to the demographics known for following bigger films.

After all of the revision...the noise..in other words, "it's not yer daddy's Star Trek," what's the excuse?
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Old June 20 2013, 08:16 PM   #133
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

After all of the revision...the noise..in other words, "it's not yer daddy's Star Trek," what's the excuse?
I'm still not sure what excuse a movie that has made over $400 million dollars needs to make? Especially when you figure the latest film is going to make more money than any Star Trek film ever has.

I really am confused.
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Old June 20 2013, 08:23 PM   #134
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post

The Krypton stuff is just a prologue for Superman.
Hardly. Over the decades, Krypton has figured prominently in the character development of Superman, with everything from his search for a greater understanding of his origins to his place among humans, etc. Its not just some diving board the plot uses to get him from point A to B.
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Old June 20 2013, 08:30 PM   #135
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post
TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post

After all of the revision...the noise..in other words, "it's not yer daddy's Star Trek," what's the excuse?
I'm still not sure what excuse a movie that has made over $400 million dollars needs to make? Especially when you figure the latest film is going to make more money than any Star Trek film ever has.

I really am confused.
What is the thread title asking? The industry has different standards now. In the 1980s, 400 million would have been fantastic, now--in the shadow of the world spanning superhero films, a long-lived concept such as Star Trek put through the glitter grinder of JJ should be able to attract the very audience nuTrek set out to capture--the kind of people (beyond die-hards and fanboys) who fill the theatres to see the bigger fantasy films.
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