RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,604
Posts: 5,425,240
Members: 24,806
Currently online: 526
Newest member: Mudang Harada

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 19 2013, 08:43 PM   #91
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Except some how they got to there destination? Ok maybe they had a mothership somewhere. But its pretty clear they didnt travel there from Romulus on there own at only sublight speeds as a ship that would take dozens of years to get from one system to the next is stragicaly useless against a Federation fleet of warp capable ships.
The ship never tackled any Federation fleets, and we never got any evidence that it would have been supposed to. It existed to tackle Federation fortresses, and it tackled those very well.

Within the confines of the episode, we got no reason to think that the trip from the RNZ to Romulus would be interstellar. Quite to the contrary, the trip involved passing by a comet that had a tail, suggesting that all the action was taking place deep insystem (supposedly in the system that held planets Romulus and Remus).

It is only in TNG "The Enemy" that we first truly learn that the scale of things might be different. There, it takes a modern, definitely high-warp-capable Romulan warbird at least an hour to cross from the inner surface of the RNZ to the outer...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2013, 09:08 PM   #92
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Timo wrote: View Post

It is only in TNG "The Enemy" that we first truly learn that the scale of things might be different. There, it takes a modern, definitely high-warp-capable Romulan warbird at least an hour to cross from the inner surface of the RNZ to the outer...

Timo Saloniemi
Which makes me think the Romulans did have some sort of FTL capabilitys on there BOP.

I liked what someone else on here said. Maybe it had a singlerity device like in the later series but as it was a new tecnology the Enterprise just couldnt detect it.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2013, 09:35 PM   #93
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

T'Girl wrote: View Post
When the Dominion ships used to emerge from the wormhole without DS9 realizing it, all they saw was the wormhole opening and closing without reason.
That never actually happened. The opening and closing of the wormhole was due to a device placed near the communications relay on the wormhole's far side, giving the appearance that a cloaked fleet was coming through. Sisko managed to even find the officer responsible and had Kira put him on the Defiant before they came to Earth to help him stop Admiral Leyton.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2013, 10:06 PM   #94
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

feek61 wrote: View Post
There is no disagreement here that it is not practical unless there was a FTL mothership someplace nearby but we didn't see that. I know what the script says, I know what the writers guide says and I know what is said in the episode and ALL of those things point to STL. Just because you think that is wrong doesn't change the facts.
Concise summary in a nutshell! And again proves my point that just because we didn't look at all the options (FTL mothership) we shouldn't jump to premature conclusions at the expense of the people that gave us Star Trek.

I had already mentioned in this thread my astonishment, that the Romulan Commander wondered if they still had old style nuclear warheads on board. Shouldn't he know?

If that ship had been travelling at sublight speeds for an extended period of time, surely the crew and its commander got to know every screw and bolt on his vessel on a first name basis.

However, if the Romulan mission was just another WW II analogy (i.e. the Doolittle Raid), then apparently the ship was stripped of all expendable weight and the mission was prepared in such a haste that even the Romulan Commander (a "creature of duty") didn't learn whether they still had those nuclear warheads or not.

Backpacked on an FTL mothership (at this point in time the Romulans might have only had bulky warp drive technology) the BoP was just dropped outside of Earth Outpost sensor range and then commenced its silent running.

Whether the Romulans were able to develop new and smaller warp engines prior to "The Deadly Years" or got help from the Klingons remains speculation, but apparently they tested the new warp drive design immediately and - again - against the United Federation of Planets (they probably used a cloaking device again)

And again, this Romulan ship was beaten by the USS Enterprise near Tau Ceti, only 11 light years from Earth!

Hence my pet theory that UFP deliberately named and numbered subsequent ships after Kirk's Enterprise because its name and number carried a strong psychological message for the Romulans, who understandably were eager to take any Enterprise back home as a trophy.

Just for the fun a quick summary of humiliations the Romulans suffered from Captain Kirk and the USS Enterprise
  • Defeated Praetor's finest and proudest flagship in the Neutral Zone at Stardate 1709.6
  • Defeated Romulan ship near Tau Ceti in the core region of the UFP (stardate unknown). Frustrating to have come that far and then perish
  • Outwitted Romulan patrol ships at Stardate 3579.4 by using the Corbomite bluff
  • Outwitted Romulan patrol ships and stole cloaking device mechanism at Stardate 5027.3
Which is the one word that makes a Romulan loose his mind?
"Kirk"


Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 09:20 AM   #95
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
I When that happen its needs retconing or ignoreing.
Not sure I agree with this. If something appears in a episode, it's best to figure out a way to wiggle it into continuity somehow. If necessary I would rather put somethings down to a mis-statement on the part of a character, than "retcon" it out of existence.

Some fans want to retcon way too much out of the show, simply for the purpose of supporting their own position on a personal viewpoint.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 09:25 AM   #96
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Timo wrote: View Post
The ship never tackled any Federation fleets, and we never got any evidence that it would have been supposed to. It existed to tackle Federation fortresses, and it tackled those very well.
Technically we don't know what the BOP was designed to fight against. Since the plasma bolt was quite capable of chasing down a warp speed Enterprise it stands to reason it was a warship capable of fighting against other FTL ships and stationary targets.

Timo wrote: View Post
Within the confines of the episode, we got no reason to think that the trip from the RNZ to Romulus would be interstellar. Quite to the contrary, the trip involved passing by a comet that had a tail, suggesting that all the action was taking place deep insystem (supposedly in the system that held planets Romulus and Remus).
The trip involved the Romulans leading the Enterprise into the nearest trap they could find which happens to be a comet. Given how fast ships can be at FTL, it is just as possible that the FTL flight passed near a star system and the Romulans diverted to the comet to gain cover.

Plus, if they were strictly STL and fighting inside their own system then this line wouldn't work:
COMMANDER: It is good we approach the Neutral Zone. Not too soon for me to see the stars of home. I know they are following.
For the stars to change position or even to become visible again would imply that they're traveling greater distances than a single star system, IMO.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 10:50 AM   #97
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Some fans want to retcon way too much out of the show, simply for the purpose of supporting their own position on a personal viewpoint.
True. And there's also the issue whether one is an advocate of GUT (Grand Unified Theory), which tends to overwrite "facts" from earlier Star Trek productions, or one who advocates that each series should be acknowledged with its own internal canon, regardless of what came later (which is why I approach the BoP subject strictly from a TOS point of view).

@ blssdwlf

There was an interesting thread where a Trek BBS member noted the elaborated style of Romulan dialogue which (indeed) was highly reminiscent of "Shakespeare talk".

In this context "to see the stars of home" is probably rather Romulan poetry than a scientific statement, IMHO.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 12:32 PM   #98
Mister_Atoz
Commander
 
Mister_Atoz's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
In this context "to see the stars of home" is probably rather Romulan poetry than a scientific statement, IMHO.
Agreed, while we're on the topic of fans who retcon and fans who don't, let's talk about fans who take some snippets of dialogue too literally...

I for one took this statement to mean that Romulans literally live on the surface of stars
Mister_Atoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 12:53 PM   #99
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Not sure I agree with this. If something appears in a episode, it's best to figure out a way to wiggle it into continuity somehow. If necessary I would rather put somethings down to a mis-statement on the part of a character, than "retcon" it out of existence.

Some fans want to retcon way too much out of the show, simply for the purpose of supporting their own position on a personal viewpoint.

No I agree. It some thing that should only be used when the writters have made a really really really dumb mistake. Like implying something completly impossible or really stupid.

There are certain episodes were writers have droped the ball so badly like threshold and These are the voyages ect


As for Romulans have only sublight speed. It is impossible end of. Even if that one ship only had litral impulse it would have to have been carried there by a warp ship. If they did not have faster than light they would never have left there system let alone been able to wage a instersteller war with Earth, Vulcan, Andoria and what ever the tellerite home system is called.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 02:11 PM   #100
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Mister_Atoz wrote: View Post
I for one took this statement to mean that Romulans literally live on the surface of stars
Careful! "Balance of Terror" is an analogy to the WWII scenario of an Anglosaxon destroyer hunting a (Japanese or German) submarine.
In the latter case, the Romulan Commander was eager to see the planets of home, because "star" in old German can equally mean "planet".

@ Crazyewok

Good Point! As a matter of fact the older Romulan makes a remark according to which him and the commander have seen "a hundred campaigns together". While not solid evidence (what kind of campaigns and against whom?) I think it does qualify to support your theory.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 03:02 PM   #101
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

Mister_Atoz wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
In this context "to see the stars of home" is probably rather Romulan poetry than a scientific statement, IMHO.
Agreed, while we're on the topic of fans who retcon and fans who don't, let's talk about fans who take some snippets of dialogue too literally...

I for one took this statement to mean that Romulans literally live on the surface of stars
Then he should have said, "Not too soon to stand on the stars of home" You know, to take the statement literally

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Good Point! As a matter of fact the older Romulan makes a remark according to which him and the commander have seen "a hundred campaigns together". While not solid evidence (what kind of campaigns and against whom?) I think it does qualify to support your theory.
Although given the long lifespan of the Vulcans wouldn't the Romulans also have a long life? A hundred campaigns doesn't seem too odd.

Besides, we've seen ships go home on impulse power and it isn't made out to be a hundred-year-beyond-human-lifespan trip. See the Excelsior from "The Undiscovered Country" and Enterprise from "Where No Man Has Gone Before".
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 03:10 PM   #102
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
[
Besides, we've seen ships go home on impulse power and it isn't made out to be a hundred-year-beyond-human-lifespan trip. See the Excelsior from "The Undiscovered Country" and Enterprise from "Where No Man Has Gone Before".
Then that means impulse is capable of going faster than light.
I can live with that. That impulse can go faster than light but is not as effective as normal warp.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 03:51 PM   #103
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

The trip involved the Romulans leading the Enterprise into the nearest trap they could find which happens to be a comet. Given how fast ships can be at FTL, it is just as possible that the FTL flight passed near a star system and the Romulans diverted to the comet to gain cover.
But therein lies the problem: if travel is fast enough to take you to a comet in a random nearby star system, it is fast enough that the comet cannot act as a diversion: it would take just fractions of a second to go through the tail!

I for one took this statement to mean that Romulans literally live on the surface of stars
Naah, the Commander was just anxious to see the popular girl band Pleiades and the stand-up comedian who does the superb Sarek impression.

See the Excelsior from "The Undiscovered Country" and Enterprise from "Where No Man Has Gone Before".
The Excelsior did not span an interstellar distance at impulse in ST6. The Enterprise in turn spanned a distance explicitly established to be "a few light days" in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", again not interstellar. Indeed, in the latter case, it was also said that impulse drive cannot take the heroes back home at all, since even the nearest bases are "years" away.

A ship on impulse drive has never spanned an interstellar distance on screen. At most we have seen ships on impulse at the start and/or end of an interstellar journey, but we have massive precedent that this is what warp-capable ships routinely do when going from star to star anyway: they start out slow, they then do high warp, and they again slow down.

It is a different issue that ships credited with nothing but "impulse power" or "impulse engines" have gone interstellar off screen. What remains to be established is whether this crediting missed the fact that the ships in fact also had warp drive.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 07:56 PM   #104
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

I am increasingly of the opinion that the Romulan BoP does in fact have warp engines, but, rather than an anti-matter reactor, they have a fusion reactor, very much like the Federation uses for Impulse engines. So, in this case, Scotty's line refers to their reactor that generates far less electricity than Kirk's does. "Simple Impulse" in this case would be a colloquial expression that everyone would understand meant a powerful fusion reactor, not unlike their own impulse engine reactors, but far inferior to the M/AM reactors the Enterprise enjoys.

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 08:01 PM   #105
YJAGG
Lieutenant Commander
 
YJAGG's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Let's Discuss the Romulan Bird of Prey!

I alway felt it was the smaller ( nacelle to nacelle) then the primary hull of the Enterpirse, but all the scales that I have seen place the hull to be a little bigger than the primary hull

http://www.bitrebels.com/geek/size-c...i-fi-spaceship
YJAGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
balance of terror, romulan bird of prey

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.