RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,395
Posts: 5,505,618
Members: 25,127
Currently online: 473
Newest member: OneOfFour

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 20 2013, 03:39 PM   #1
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Size of starfleet?

I have always wondered this.

In Ent it seems there is 1 and later 2 long range ships and a dozen or so short range vessels like the intrepid. As far as registration numbers go we see NX-01 and 02. Yet there are otherships that were built before hand like as I said the intrepid (what would their reg number be?)

TOS we know there are at least 12 Constitution class vessels. With this number going up by the time of Undiscovered country. And there are a number of other classes in the background either on displays or shown like the Grissom or Excelsior. Also the highest reg number we see on screen is NX/NCC-2000. so there is at maximum around 2000.

By TNG/DS9 we know there are thousands of ships due to the whole dominion war. We also see a multitude of classes on screen. We also have the higher registry number as NX-74913 on the Prometheus. So there is a maximum of around 75000 ships.


Few things. Just because we don't see other classed in TOS until the films does not mean they don't exist as the reason they were not shown is most likely budget restraints.

As for registry numbers it can be assumed they cant give a completely accurate picture as older ships with lower registry numbers would be decommissioned. Though to confuse matters registry numbers can be reused as we see the Enterprise always carrying 1701.



Also seeing as the lowest Excelsior class is NCC-2000 and the highest number is USS Melbourne NCC-62043 it seems there was a massive fleet build up around the mid/late motion picture era. (maybe due to possible Klingon war? Federation expansion?)

IM also assuming the Excelsior and Miranda most likely were discontinued to be built by 2340 as the design of the ships change as we can see by the ambassador class. why built old designs when new ones come out? You would just then refit the old ships rather than build new ones.

In conclusion my theory is.

Around the TOS/ Early part or the motion picture era the fleet size is most likely around 1000/1500.

By around the undiscovered country its gone up to around 20000-40000 ships.

By TNG the fleet size most likely decreased by a unknown number due the relative peace with only really the cardassians to worry about. So allot of the fleet would be in mothball.

By DS9 the fleet would be back up to the 20000/40000 level due to the Borg and Dominion.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 03:59 PM   #2
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Size of starfleet?

The size of Starfleet has always depended on the story at hand, IMO.

Personally, I tend to go with Starfleet being fairly small (several thousand starships by the 24th-Century), deployed individually throughout the Federation and beyond. There could be many more smaller short-range support vessels assigned to individual planets and starbases, though.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 04:15 PM   #3
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Tactical withdrawl along the Klingon border
Re: Size of starfleet?

It's as big or small as it needs to be to tell a story (look at how often the Enterprise is the only ship in the sector ).

I work from idea that the big capital ships (Ambassador, Galaxy, Nebula, Sovereign) are relatively light in the fleet, with the bulk of it being made up by mid-sized multifuntion ships (which is why the Excelsior-Class is so prevanent) as well as small cruisers and scouts.

Post Dominion War, there would be a large number of combat ships (especially Defiant-Class, since its small and well-armed), which would then be tasked with escort and patrol duties until things quietened down.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Naya, U.S.S. Renown NCC-1415 [Star Trek: Four Years War]
Manip by: JM1776 (STPMA.net)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 04:16 PM   #4
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Size of starfleet?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
TOS we know there are at least 12 Constitution class vessels. With this number going up by the time of Undiscovered country. And there are a number of other classes in the background either on displays or shown like the Grissom or Excelsior. Also the highest reg number we see on screen is NX/NCC-2000. so there is at maximum around 2000.
That's not strictly true, for all we know they could be registries like NAR-1679, or NGC-456. So they could be more ships with differen registries that fuful a more auxilary role but could be called upon if needed.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

Last edited by MacLeod; June 20 2013 at 06:10 PM.
MacLeod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:22 PM   #5
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
There could be many more smaller short-range support vessels assigned to individual planets and starbases, though.
Thats what Im thinking make up the bulk.

I doubt there is more than a few thousand combat capital ships and even then Galaxys and Soverrign class would be in the double digit figures.

I think the bulk of the 20000's odd ships would be auxilary ships and survey ships doing very boring mundane stuff.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:25 PM   #6
LobsterAfternoon
Commander
 
LobsterAfternoon's Avatar
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

Plus just cause the highest NCC we saw was 2000 doesn't mean that is the highest number in-universe. Nor do we even know if the registry number corresponds to the number of ships in the fleet.
LobsterAfternoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:33 PM   #7
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Plus just cause the highest NCC we saw was 2000 doesn't mean that is the highest number in-universe. Nor do we even know if the registry number corresponds to the number of ships in the fleet.

No but as the Excelcior was the most advanced ship in the fleet at the time it figures the numbers wont go much higher than that. The diffrence would be a few hundred at most.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:38 PM   #8
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Size of starfleet?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Plus just cause the highest NCC we saw was 2000 doesn't mean that is the highest number in-universe. Nor do we even know if the registry number corresponds to the number of ships in the fleet.
Agreed. For all intents and purposes, hull registries may represent some kind of production code which includes more than just the number of the particular vessel.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:40 PM   #9
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Plus just cause the highest NCC we saw was 2000 doesn't mean that is the highest number in-universe. Nor do we even know if the registry number corresponds to the number of ships in the fleet.
Agreed. For all intents and purposes, hull registries may represent some kind of production code which includes more than just the number of the particular vessel.

But the the early ships form Enterpise and what you can see from the daedalus class it seems to go up in a linear fasion.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:49 PM   #10
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Size of starfleet?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Plus just cause the highest NCC we saw was 2000 doesn't mean that is the highest number in-universe. Nor do we even know if the registry number corresponds to the number of ships in the fleet.
Agreed. For all intents and purposes, hull registries may represent some kind of production code which includes more than just the number of the particular vessel.

But the the early ships form Enterpise and what you can see from the daedalus class it seems to go up in a linear fasion.
Which really doesn't mean much, except that Starfleet has continued to build more ships over the years. Still doesn't mean that hull registries represent the actual number of ships built, though (in the old days, it was believed that hull registries also included the number of a vessel's ship class or production block).

It's even conceivable that, like stardates, Starfleet hull registries were revised at one point over the decades with a different system in place now during the TNG era than it was during the TOS era.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 05:56 PM   #11
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which really doesn't mean much, except that Starfleet has continued to build more ships over the years. Still doesn't mean that hull registries represent the actual number of ships built, though (in the old days, it was believed that hull registries also included the number of a vessel's ship class or production block).

It's even conceivable that, like stardates, Starfleet hull registries were revised at one point over the decades with a different system in place now during the TNG era than it was during the TOS era.
Well I have already indicated in my original post that no you cant get the exact numbers from the registary numbers but MAYBE a rough ball bark figure. So yeah just cause there are ships in the 75000 range does not mean there are 75000 but it could indicate the number of ships are in the tens of thousands range.

20000 ships for a orginisation that spans 8000 light years seem pretty reasonble. Espeicly if 75% + are just supply ships, personal transports, survey, repair, construction and other mundane utility ships.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 06:21 PM   #12
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Ferguson, Missouri, USA
Re: Size of starfleet?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Which really doesn't mean much, except that Starfleet has continued to build more ships over the years. Still doesn't mean that hull registries represent the actual number of ships built, though (in the old days, it was believed that hull registries also included the number of a vessel's ship class or production block).

It's even conceivable that, like stardates, Starfleet hull registries were revised at one point over the decades with a different system in place now during the TNG era than it was during the TOS era.
Well I have already indicated in my original post that no you cant get the exact numbers from the registary numbers but MAYBE a rough ball bark figure. So yeah just cause there are ships in the 75000 range does not mean there are 75000 but it could indicate the number of ships are in the tens of thousands range.
I would be even skeptical of that. IMO, onscreen evidence doesn't really support the idea of a Starfleet consisting of 10,000+ ships (in DS9, Starfleet seemed to have no more than a few thousand during the Dominion War and in TNG could only scramble a few dozen to intercept the Borg at Wolf 359).
20000 ships for a orginisation that spans 8000 light years seem pretty reasonble. Espeicly if 75% + are just supply ships, personal transports, survey, repair, construction and other mundane utility ships.
In that capacity, you're probably still looking at only a few thousand frontline starships, with the rest being auxiliary craft more along the lines of shuttles and tugs.
__________________
"Don't sweat the small stuff--it makes you small-minded..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 06:22 PM   #13
Merry Christmas
Vice Admiral
 
Merry Christmas's Avatar
 
Location: tantalizing t'girl's techno temenos
Re: Size of starfleet?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Plus just cause the highest NCC we saw was 2000 doesn't mean that is the highest number in-universe.
Crazyewok wrote: View Post
]But the the early ships form Enterpise and what you can see from the daedalus class it seems to go up in a linear fasion.
It's possible that as a ship reaches the end of it's life and is removed from service, that it's number is reassigned to a new ship, and then to another new ship in time after that.

The same way that names are used over and over.

Somewhere in the 24th century, there is a brand new ship with the number 01.

Merry Christmas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 06:25 PM   #14
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
In that capacity, you're probably still looking at only a few thousand frontline starships, with the rest being auxiliary craft more along the lines of shuttles and tugs.
That what im saying though!

Most of the fleet is just mundane support craft.

Frontline ships are most likley in the low thousands.


8000 light years is a huge terratory so there would have to be a massive support fleet. Not necessarily frontline ships lilke galaxly classes or even mirandas but most likley small cargo/ Transport like ships.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2013, 06:29 PM   #15
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Size of starfleet?

T'Girl wrote: View Post

Somewhere in the 24th century, there is a brand new ship with the number 01.


Or Key ships like the NX-01 are kept around as museum ships like the royal navy still keeps the 250 year old HMS Victory around. Its still comissioned and in Navy service but used for functions and as a museum. The NX-01 mostly likley is flying round the solar system carrying kids on school trips.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
no ships near earth, starfleet

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.