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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 19 2013, 08:08 PM   #91
Kruezerman
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Box office is more popularity and effectiveness of marketing. ID failed with marketing big time, but I think it to be (and many others agree with me) the better film.
And many others disagree with you. So?
Let me reiterate, critics agree with me.
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Old June 19 2013, 08:19 PM   #92
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
Vyse wrote: View Post
That's one of my biggest issues with this movie. Superman's almost complete disregard for saving lives until the very end after tens of thousands, if not more died.
I don't think that's true. Lois finds him because of all the people he saves.
During the fight in Metropolis he doesn't try to save a single person until the very last part of the fight with Zod.

Nothing is even said of how many people were lost, no one seems to care.
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Old June 19 2013, 08:19 PM   #93
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Box office is more popularity and effectiveness of marketing. ID failed with marketing big time, but I think it to be (and many others agree with me) the better film.
And many others disagree with you. So?
Let me reiterate, critics agree with me.
Exactly.
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Old June 19 2013, 09:12 PM   #94
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

teacake wrote: View Post
This is why we need Teenage Augment Ninja Starfleet as our next series.
Bet the uniforms would be really cool.

DarthTom wrote: View Post
SAndrews10 wrote: View Post
But yet I've always come across Star Trek=geeky/nerdy/stupid but if you like Star Wars that equals cool/awesome/etc...be interesting to see what happens with JJ Wars.
One thing Trek needs to address is that people 25 and under just don't seem to be interested in this film whereas Ironman and Superman have huge followings in a younger audience.
Iron Man and Superman might have larger followings, but that's only to be expected, because they always have had. If you think that Trek holds no interest for the younger age-group*, you might want to check with several million 25-and-unders on Tumblr, because Star Trek and this movie are huge with that crowd.

------------------
* As far as that goes, hasn't the running line—continuously intoned by the Disgruntled Old Guard of Trek for the last four years—been that "the 2009 Star Trek was aimed exclusively at the kiddies/Twilight crowd/Generation ADD," and that the older audiences (We Who Have Carried Trek All This Way and Kept It Alive Throughout the Lean Years™) were being shut out?

Whatever happened to that notion? I'm sure I remember hearing it quite often. But now it's the kids who need to be targeted - WTF?
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Old June 19 2013, 09:22 PM   #95
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Iron Man and Superman might have larger followings, but that's only to be expected, because they always have had. If you think that Trek holds no interest for the younger age-group*, you might want to check with several million 25-and-unders on Tumblr, because Star Trek and this movie are huge with that crowd.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't make something true. Man of Steel and Ironman is more popular with younger folks than Trek. Facts are facts.

Yahoo
Only 25 percent of those who went to see "Into Darkness" were under 25 years of age. That's considerably less than the 35 percent that the previous film attracted, and it's far more older-skewing than the first-weekend audiences for Disney's "Iron Man 3," which was 45 percent under 25, 27 percent families and 21 percent teens.
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Old June 19 2013, 09:27 PM   #96
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

DarthTom wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Iron Man and Superman might have larger followings, but that's only to be expected, because they always have had. If you think that Trek holds no interest for the younger age-group*, you might want to check with several million 25-and-unders on Tumblr, because Star Trek and this movie are huge with that crowd.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't make something true. Man of Steel and Ironman is more popular with younger folks than Trek. Facts are facts.
I think that point is conceded in the first sentence. He's merely pointing out that, despite being less popular with younger crowds than the other two, it isn't unpopular with them, based on his observations of numbers on a website (which is just as factual, for this purpose, as the industry numbers).
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Old June 19 2013, 09:29 PM   #97
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Iron Man and Superman might have larger followings, but that's only to be expected, because they always have had.
You are half correct: Superman had large followings from time to time, but until the Downey Iron Man films, the character had been a steady "B" lister for more than 4 decades, with no other film adaptations other than two short lived cartoons: the 1966 Marvel Super Heroes & 1994 Marvel Action Hour--both umbrella series not exclusively focusing on IM before the Downey film.

IM was by no means a character with a large following, yet the Downey film scored big--far beyond nuTrek.

That speaks volumes for both the "B" lister..and nuTrek.



If you think that Trek holds no interest for the younger age-group*, you might want to check with several million 25-and-unders on Tumblr, because Star Trek and this movie are huge with that crowd.
Not Superman or Iron Man huge. No one is talking about this film in the broad pop cultural sense in the way seen with the better superhero movies.
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Old June 19 2013, 09:42 PM   #98
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Ovation wrote: View Post
I think that point is conceded in the first sentence. He's merely pointing out that, despite being less popular with younger crowds than the other two, it isn't unpopular with them, based on his observations of numbers on a website (which is just as factual, for this purpose, as the industry numbers).
I was referring to the percentages in addition to the sheer volume of the fan base of both IM and MOS. It also begs the question why STID had a ten percent drop with the 25 and under crowd?

BTW, in the same article an industry insider also says this:

"It didn't grab the attention of young moviegoers, and you're not going to get your movie over $100 million with just older folks," Exhibitor Relations vice-president and senior analyst Jeff Bock told TheWrap. "It's tough to figure, because with Abrams doing it, it's really not your father's 'Star Trek.' But it needs to find that young audience in a hurry."
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Old June 19 2013, 10:00 PM   #99
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

I don't know why there was a drop. I'm not dismissing it as a concern (though I think it is a smaller concern than Mr. Bock seems to think, given that Trek has busted through 200 million so far, domestically, and more so overseas). I was just responding to the idea that you thought M'Sharak had not acknowledged your overall point regarding the other two franchises.
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Old June 19 2013, 10:20 PM   #100
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Vyse wrote: View Post
During the fight in Metropolis he doesn't try to save a single person until the very last part of the fight with Zod.
But that doesn't remove what I said. We see him save and help people throughout the movie. In fact, doing or not doing so is the main theme. That's how Lois tracks him down. Also, during the fight in Smallville, he pulls his punches in the diner because there are people there, and the female Kryptonian calls him on it.

Vyse wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Let me reiterate, critics agree with me.
Exactly.
Critics don't mean much, except that critics liked or dislike a movie.

I think, aside from Box office revenue, the only objective measure of a film's success is longevity i.e. how influent and memorable it is. But that's sometimes hard to measure.
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Old June 19 2013, 10:21 PM   #101
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

DarthTom wrote: View Post
It also begs the question why STID had a ten percent drop with the 25 and under crowd?
When ST09 came out it was the first entry in a new, young, hip reboot of the franchise. Now it's an established film series, so it's probably not going to have quite the same level of excitement with the younger crowd as the first did. That's all just pure speculation on my part, but I think it makes sense.

Vyse wrote: View Post
During the fight in Metropolis he doesn't try to save a single person until the very last part of the fight with Zod.

Nothing is even said of how many people were lost, no one seems to care.
Because he's trying to save seven billion people by stopping Zod, his henchmen, and the world engine (on opposing sides of the planet, mind you). When you're dealing with a threat of that scope, and bad guys as powerful as you are, you don't always have the time or ability to deal with saving individuals. The bigger picture is at stake. After the threat to the planet was removed and all the henchmen are sent into the Phantom Zone except Zod, Superman is able to help people on an individual basis.

As for the second part, what is this need for everything to be explicitly spelled out to people? Just because they didn't mourn the massive and almost unfathomable loss of life in Metropolis doesn't mean no one cared, it just means having an endless series of memorials is not really cinematic and is kind of a downer, especially when you want to end your superhero movie on a message of hope (a recurring theme in the film).

Likewise, STiD wanted to end on a message of rebuilding (the city, the Enterprise, Kirk's confidence...) and returning to the exploration they were meant to do from the start. Delving into the memorials even more than they did would again be a total down note to end the movie on. They wanted to end on something hopeful.

Last edited by Locutus of Bored; June 19 2013 at 10:33 PM.
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Old June 20 2013, 12:04 AM   #102
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

I have no idea why. I don't have much interest in superhero movies, or Fast and Furious movies, and it baffles me why they make so much money effortlessly at the box office.
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Old June 20 2013, 12:09 AM   #103
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

I am not Spock wrote: View Post
I have no idea why. I don't have much interest in superhero movies, or Fast and Furious movies, and it baffles me why they make so much money effortlessly at the box office.
Probably because they are just fun.

You get some destruction, the hero beats the piss out of the bad guy and gets the girl at the end. It's simply a formula that works.

Audiences still aren't convinced Star Trek can do that consistently. Plus you have the brigade that badmouths when a girl is in her underwear for ten seconds and many of the bad stereotypes associated with Trek come rushing back.
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Old June 20 2013, 12:33 AM   #104
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Because he's trying to save seven billion people by stopping Zod, his henchmen, and the world engine (on opposing sides of the planet, mind you). When you're dealing with a threat of that scope, and bad guys as powerful as you are, you don't always have the time or ability to deal with saving individuals. The bigger picture is at stake. After the threat to the planet was removed and all the henchmen are sent into the Phantom Zone except Zod, Superman is able to help people on an individual basis.
Right. What bugged me about the 78 movie is that Supes has time to go around and save people all over the place while handling Luthor's real-estate scam. It's hard enough to care for an invulnerable character without having to suffer through infinite selflessness. The man's still got to prioritise. Or are we to believe that no one dies when Superman's around ?

The move I think about Man of Steel and the more I like it.

I am not Spock wrote: View Post
I have no idea why. I don't have much interest in superhero movies, or Fast and Furious movies, and it baffles me why they make so much money effortlessly at the box office.
Well I like all of that, myself. Superheroes, robots, spaceships, aliens, fast vehicles, cityscape devastation, laser weapons...

...and if you add that all up together, it reads "Grendizer", the anime I grew up with when I was a toddler.
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Old June 20 2013, 03:30 AM   #105
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
The Enterprise and the pointy ears guy are the ongoing adventure of Star Trek.
Yes, it's fucking endless, isn't it? Therefore, no part of it is particularly important or remarkable.

The Krypton stuff is just a prologue for Superman.
Uh-huh. The manger stuff is just prologue for Jesus, but for some reason it's the reason for one of the more popular holidays in a number of countries.
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