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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 19 2013, 05:36 PM   #76
TommyW
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
Then why does he keep saving people in the movie ?
I think it's safe to say he's responsible for the deaths of a lot more people than he saves. "I'm sorry patrons at the gas station I just blew up - but Zod threatened my mum!!" Thousands and thousands of people must have died in the last 40 minutes too and he doesn't even acknowledge it
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Old June 19 2013, 05:37 PM   #77
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Belz... wrote: View Post
LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
I really disagree, I find Superman's origin beyond boring. All you need to know is that he's an alien, his homeworld blew up, and he survived and was raised by nice folks on Earth. The countless interpretations of it, with Jor-El as a quasi action hero or as a hologram that never stops bothering his son drive me nuts.
Similarily, all you need to know about Star Trek is that there's a ship called Enterprise with a guy with pointed ears on board who acts like a computer.
See, I think that's not at all a fair comparison. The Enterprise and the pointy ears guy are the ongoing adventure of Star Trek. The Krypton stuff is just a prologue for Superman.
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Old June 19 2013, 05:58 PM   #78
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TommyW wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Then why does he keep saving people in the movie ?
I think it's safe to say he's responsible for the deaths of a lot more people than he saves. "I'm sorry patrons at the gas station I just blew up - but Zod threatened my mum!!" Thousands and thousands of people must have died in the last 40 minutes too and he doesn't even acknowledge it


Zod was planning to eradicate the human race.
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Old June 19 2013, 06:04 PM   #79
Vyse
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

TommyW wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Then why does he keep saving people in the movie ?
I think it's safe to say he's responsible for the deaths of a lot more people than he saves. "I'm sorry patrons at the gas station I just blew up - but Zod threatened my mum!!" Thousands and thousands of people must have died in the last 40 minutes too and he doesn't even acknowledge it
That's one of my biggest issues with this movie. Superman's almost complete disregard for saving lives until the very end after tens of thousands, if not more died.

I like how in Superman II, Superman tries to take the fighting away from Metropolis, knowing how many innocents would be lost in the cross-fire.

If Superman tried to lure Zod to a secluded place, but failed, then fine. But Superman didn't even seem to try and do this.
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Old June 19 2013, 06:22 PM   #80
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

DaleC76 wrote: View Post
Super hero movies have millions of children begging to go see them. I don't think Star Trek has that going for them (although I did as a youngster).
So it follows that producing projects which get ST into the field of view of this demographic would be helpful. Why is that not being pursued, I wonder. All the Big Boys of Summer do it, why doesn't Trek?

teacake wrote: View Post
This is why we need Teenage Augment Ninja Starfleet as our next series.
There could actually be a fair point to considering changing/altering the brand name, (could fandom survive the butthurt?!1) Such a measure could help lessen the stigma associated or it could backfire, come across as sneaky and underhanded.

Lance wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
Bottom line: Star Trek isn't the broad crowd puller that Paramount thinks it is. The franchise stands more chance of success if they don't put it up against movies with much better street cred.
ST:TMP performed well - and had a very broad demographic - because it followed almost a decade of TOS (and TAS) repeats in syndication, and at times when children could watch with their parents: early evening prime time.

It hasn't had the same "crowd puller" value ever since. Certainly, the success of TNG in first-run syndication in Seasons 3-6 (its peak?) had merchandising running high, but it was perhaps all downhill since then - with the latter series screening later and later to fewer and fewer - until Bad Robot revived things in 2009.
Pretty much confirms what I was thinking. Even in the Bad Robot era, the name of 'Star Trek' will just never have the same kind of name cache as an Iron Man or Superman.

The BR reboot has indisputably given Star Trek a shot in the arm, given it the best chance in decades of actually tapping into the mainstream... but in terms of the wider mainstream audience, putting it up against Iron Man has proven that it doesn't have the pulling power that maybe Paramount might have expected following the success of ST2009.

IMO Star Trek as a movie franchise needs to be nurtured, the worst thing Paramount can do is to send it into the ring against opponents that are in a much heavier weight class. They did this with Nemesis, and (while STID has obviously been a bigger success than Nemesis ever could have been) they appear to have made the same 'mistake' with STID.
General audiences know/like ST and it is entirely possible they WANT ST to become a heavy hitter in the league but they are not going to make a big show of that.

It's all up to TPTB. They need to step up, do whatever it takes to help Trek shake off the ties holding it down, make it break through the barriers holding it back.

Question is, can they do that without alienating, (driving away forever) more of the core fanbase than the total of new fans brought in? Should they care?

Just thinking out loud.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:01 PM   #81
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

But yet I've always come across Star Trek=geeky/nerdy/stupid but if you like Star Wars that equals cool/awesome/etc...be interesting to see what happens with JJ Wars.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:08 PM   #82
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Box office is more popularity and effectiveness of marketing. ID failed with marketing big time, but I think it to be (and many others agree with me) the better film.
And many others disagree with you. So?
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Old June 19 2013, 07:20 PM   #83
DarthTom
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

SAndrews10 wrote: View Post
But yet I've always come across Star Trek=geeky/nerdy/stupid but if you like Star Wars that equals cool/awesome/etc...be interesting to see what happens with JJ Wars.
One thing Trek needs to address is that people 25 and under just don't seem to be interested in this film whereas Ironman and Superman have huge followings in a younger audience.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:24 PM   #84
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

DarthTom wrote: View Post
SAndrews10 wrote: View Post
But yet I've always come across Star Trek=geeky/nerdy/stupid but if you like Star Wars that equals cool/awesome/etc...be interesting to see what happens with JJ Wars.
One thing Trek needs to address is that people 25 and under just don't seem to be interested in this film whereas Ironman and Superman have huge followings in a younger audience.
Maybe since there's not much of a manned space program, younger folks have a tougher time connecting to a universe where we live and work in space in fantastic starships.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:28 PM   #85
DarthTom
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

BillJ wrote: View Post

Maybe since there's not much of a manned space program, younger folks have a tougher time connecting to a universe where we live and work in space in fantastic starships.
Perhaps that's what it is or that Henry Cavil is just more of a stud in terms of his appearance than Pine and younger girls will go to just watch him a a tight suit or in Iron Man's case Downey has broader appeal than Chris Pine.

Perhaps Paramount/Trek should pop for a big, big name star next go around. American audiences [and that's where Trek fell short] just didn't really know about or care about Cumberbatch.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:30 PM   #86
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

DarthTom wrote: View Post
Perhaps Paramount/Trek should pop for a big, big name star next go around. American audiences [and that's where Trek fell short] just didn't really know about or care about Cumberbatch.
I dunno if that'd accomplish much. After Earth had Will Smith, one of the biggest stars in the world, and it still fizzled. Ditto Tom Cruise's "Oblivion" back in April. The alchemy of success would seem to be a bit more complicated than that.

Last edited by M'Sharak; June 19 2013 at 09:13 PM. Reason: to correct quote attribution
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Old June 19 2013, 07:32 PM   #87
Belz...
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Vyse wrote: View Post
That's one of my biggest issues with this movie. Superman's almost complete disregard for saving lives until the very end after tens of thousands, if not more died.
I don't think that's true. Lois finds him because of all the people he saves.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:33 PM   #88
DarthTom
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

I dunno if that'd accomplish much. After Earth had Will Smith, one of the biggest stars in the world, and it still fizzled. Ditto Tom Cruise's "Oblivion" back in April. The alchemy of success would seem to be a bit more complicated than that.
Star and/or stud appeal I agree is only one component. Regarding After Earch, it failed because IMO no one wants to see Will Smith and his son fight killer animals. That's a big yawn from the get go in terms of a premise.

Whomever greenlighted After Earth didn't do his/her research. 10,000 BC - similar plot of fighting the animals - flopped as well.

Last edited by DarthTom; June 19 2013 at 07:46 PM.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:43 PM   #89
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
The success of MOS was not driven by a thirty-five year-old movie that everyone doesn't agree was "excellent."
...and you are basing this on...?
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Old June 19 2013, 07:50 PM   #90
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Kpnuts wrote: View Post
Man of Steel was awful. How many films can that movie rip off? Matrix, Independence Day, District 9, Alien, Avatar.
You know that the Superman origin story predates all of those right? The Matrix fight over the city between Smith and Neo, which is what I'm assuming you were referencing, was based on Superman, not the other way around. You think Neo flying around with a trenchcoat/cape was the first time that ever happened and that the Wachowskis weren't doing an homage to anyone there?

Superman was an alien refugee story long before District 9, dealt with alien invasions way before Independence Day, and had an alien living among the natives and taking their side well before Avatar..
Agreed; I do not know how anyone could think a sane mind would rip off the likes of The Matrix, Independence Day, District 9, or Avatar.
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