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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 18 2013, 07:26 PM   #61
Christopher
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

^But there's no reason to call it "Ceti" anything unless it's located within the Cetus constellation. The word "Ceti" has no meaning besides "of Cetus." So regardless of word order, "Ceti Alpha" is going to mean "the Alpha star of the constellation Cetus," and that's Alpha Ceti.

In fact, in Vonda N. McIntyre's novelization of the movies, she corrected Ceti Alpha to Alpha Ceti.

And who says TOS wanted to avoid disparities with real astronomy? They constantly used the names of prominent real stars: Rigel, Vega, Antares, Deneb, Aldebaran, Capella, Canopus, Altair, Arcturus, Izar, Merak, Regulus, Alpha Centauri, Pollux, Omicron Ceti, Gamma Hydra, Gamma Trianguli, Epsilon Indi, etc. And they quite commonly put inhabited planets around stars that are too young and hot, or too far past the Main Sequence, to support them, since they went with well-known stars and those are usually the abnormally big, bright ones.
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Old June 18 2013, 10:55 PM   #62
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Random opinions:

"Khan doesn't see through Spock's silly code". Who says he doesn't? His actions wouldn't be influenced by this one way or another - indeed, he seems positively delighted when the Enterprise is "not so crippled after all", and might well have been anticipating the revelation.

"Planet can't become lifeless so quickly". Nonsense - all life could be lost in mere seconds in suitable circumstances. But we need not assume that. Our heroes thought there was nothing but us lichen down there when there were dozens of live humans inhabiting the surface - so it was a matter of sensor performance, and the cataclysm that nearly killed Khan's colony had made the planet impermeable to the usual sensors. There might have been life aplenty, our sidekicks were just unable to see it.

"Ceti Alpha" must be "Alpha Ceti". Further nonsense, especially in view of the TOS and general Trek habit of using extremely truncated star names. We have places called "Omega" or "Alpha", indicating that omission of "generally known data" such as the constellation being discussed is common in Starfleet. It would only be in keeping with Trek tradition that Epsilon Ceti A would be truncated to Ceti A(lpha), while Omega Eridani B might become Omega Bravo or the fourth planet of 334 Reticuli could become planet 334-IV.

As for membership in a certain constellation placing limitations on where a planet must be... Well, hardly. Constellations may span huge swaths of the celestial sphere, and cover basically an infinite range of distances. Cetus certainly caters for real targets near and far, but Trek offers a range of potential "new" targets as well - stars hidden behind (real or fictional) dust clouds or space anomalies when viewed from Earth but visible when viewed from Vulcan, and falling nicely within an established Earth constellation.

"Inhabited worlds around unsuitable stars". Yup, common scifi mistake - but Trek has the perfect excuse. Some 99% of inhabitable planets in that universe would by all rights be the result of terraforming anyway (humanlike creatures have been at it for billions of years!), and there are several cultures quoted with the ability to construct planets from scratch.

"Starfleet doesn't know about Ceti Alpha events". Well, it shouldn't - there's no evidence of a realtime scanning mechanism across distances greater than a couple of lightyears. And the "lightspeed shadows" of distant past events are so conspicuously absent from all Trek that we might just as well postulate a damping medium - one also responsible for hiding the radiation signatures of civilizations and spacecraft from 20th-21st century Earth observers. Heck, perhaps this medium also damps the color of stars and nebulae as it passes into our star system, so that they shine so brightly in close (starship) view in contrast to what they really look like as viewed from Earth... And is responsible for occasionally making it necessary to slow down to impulse when approaching Earth. We're the London of the future, with the infamous subspace smog problem!

Finally, "Reliant doesn't establish facts diligently enough". Why should she? It's not as if Kirk ever bothered to do surveys of entire star systems when homing in on a specific planet, either. Star systems really are a dime in a dozen, and the Reliant crew is bored out of their skulls already in this stupid hunt for these strange Goldilocks deserts that apparently have to be life-compatible but still lifeless. Anything but a quick in-and-out would be contrary to their mission goals, and any wasted time might well mean horrible death of a distressed colony or a successful Klingon raid somewhere down the line.

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Old June 18 2013, 10:57 PM   #63
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

^

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Old June 19 2013, 05:26 AM   #64
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Christopher wrote: View Post

Of course, this is far from the only plot or conceptual flaw in TWOK. The movie is full to the brim with flaws. How come Khan's followers, who were multiethnic adults when they were stranded 15 (or 18) years earlier, are now a bunch of blond Nazi-recruiting-poster types in their 20s?
In no way do the WOK followers look like Nazis.

How can a tiny torpedo terraform an entire planet?
How are starships able to travel through time, and return to the point of departure? None of what we see on screen is even remotely plausible, but it is accepted in the framework of far-future storytelling. If you buy the endless never-going-to-happen things common to Trek tech, the Genesis torpedo is not something out of the norm for fictional late 23rd century technology.

Why does Scotty bring his bloody, dying cadet/nephew (depending on the cut) to the bridge instead of sickbay?
As Sran pointed out:

People do strange things when they're in shock. Scotty may not have realized what he was doing until he actually stepped onto the bridge with Peter, so traumatized by his nephew's injuries was he.
Tragedy in can produce what observers see as strange behavior in the moment. In reality, why did Jackie Kennedy reach for a piece of her husband's skull/brains on the back of the limo? Someone being hoplessly clinical would say, "why did she do that? It makes no sense" as many a witness knew JFK was dead at the moment of the head shot. So, if she believed that piece would be instrumental in saving what obviously could not be saved, then her actions could be described as trauma-induced, "strange" behavior, however under the circumstances, it is easy to understand.
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Old June 19 2013, 11:27 AM   #65
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

As to Scotty's actions, yeah trauma does make people do strange things. The scene in Saving Private Ryan where a soldier pauses to retrieve his severed arm is a case in point, and based on actual events. Major Reno at the Little Big Horn wandered off for a good hour or so to find the body of his friend while he and his men were trying to prepare for the Indian attack.

With regard to not noticing a missing planet, if they knew Ceti Alpha VI was their destination, and they plotted a course to there, apparently finding it where it should be, would they really have been counting planets? It someone charted a course to a specific Caribbean Island, and had never been there before, would they notice if another island just happened to have gone missing?
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Old June 19 2013, 04:01 PM   #66
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
With regard to not noticing a missing planet, if they knew Ceti Alpha VI was their destination, and they plotted a course to there, apparently finding it where it should be, would they really have been counting planets? It someone charted a course to a specific Caribbean Island, and had never been there before, would they notice if another island just happened to have gone missing?
Again, Earthbound analogies don't work in space. Earth has horizons, so you're only in the direct line of sight of things that are within a few kilometers. In space, the whole universe is in your direct line of sight. Sure, you need a sensitive enough telescope to see most of it, but Starfleet vessels have great sensors, and it stands to reason that they'd be scanning ahead to get an overview of any system they neared, especially if it were largely uncharted. Heck, at the very least they'd want to scan for navigation hazards like, say, a huge cloud of debris from an exploding planet.

And as I've said two or three times before, light travels at a finite speed. If the explosion happened fifteen years earlier, then as soon as they came within fifteen light years, they should have actually seen the planet blow up. The sensors should've detected a massive disruption/energy release in the system and alerted the crew. Basically the story as written only works if the Reliant is the 18th-century sailing ship Meyer wanted to pretend it was, a primitive wooden vessel with no sensory capability beyond the crew's eyes. It doesn't make one damn bit of sense for a 23rd-century starship.
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Old June 19 2013, 05:48 PM   #67
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Timo wrote: View Post
Random opinions:

"Khan doesn't see through Spock's silly code". Who says he doesn't?
Khan himself.

"Ahhhh, not so wounded as we were led to believe!"

Not "meant" but "led." In other words, he and the others believed what Spock wanted them to.
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Old June 19 2013, 06:32 PM   #68
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Basically the story as written only works if the Reliant is the 18th-century sailing ship Meyer wanted to pretend it was, a primitive wooden vessel with no sensory capability beyond the crew's eyes. It doesn't make one damn bit of sense for a 23rd-century starship.
..and somehow, the audience did not get up in protest about this ultimately minor point, and it did not strip the story of it strength.
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Old June 19 2013, 09:55 PM   #69
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Khan himself.

"Ahhhh, not so wounded as we were led to believe!"

Not "meant" but "led." In other words, he and the others believed what Spock wanted them to.
But that's what I mean. Khan knows he was being led; it doesn't follow he allowed himself to be led. To the contrary, it might follow that he knew all along that he was being led. His actions have not been visibly affected by the coded exchange: he simply conducts his repairs and immediately launches into action at the completion of those. Surely he'd do that regardless of whether he believed Kirk and Spock or not.

it stands to reason that they'd be scanning ahead to get an overview of any system they neared, especially if it were largely uncharted
Yet it is a common feature of Star Trek before and after this movie that starships do not do such things. Spock only scans for the dramatically interesting after Kirk specifically asks him for this exceptional action, or a sidekick character indicates confusion. Take for example "The Doomsday Machine", where the heroes get "within" a star system in their search for a distress call and only then does Spock point out that there's rubble around them. Sulu was at a loss to explain his difficulties in locating... whatever, before Spock did his scan.

This actually makes sense for starships that perform quick in-and-out missions to dozens of star systems per month. Surveying is for wimps, and a planet never suddenly bumped into anybody despite not having been scanned (at least unless Trelane was steering it).

Heck, at the very least they'd want to scan for navigation hazards like, say, a huge cloud of debris from an exploding planet.
There didn't seem to be any hazard to the Enterprise from the rubble of multiple planeticide in "The Doomsday Machine", either before or after our heroes realized they would be facing such a phenomenon.

Probably the only true hazards to starship navigation are exceptionally energetic phenomena such as tri-isophasic subspace manifoldatrons, and there's a passive sensor rigged for detecting those.

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Old June 19 2013, 10:49 PM   #70
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

The problem is, sensors in Trek have always worked exactly as the plot requires. In The Immunity Syndrome Chekov was able to detect that all life had been wiped out from a star system when the Enterprise was nowhere near it. On other occasions, they started to scan for lifeforms from orbit.

As to visually seeing the explosion of Ceti Alpha VI at fifteen light-years out, why would they? Do starship main viewers reach that far? What exactly does the "visual range" mentioned in all Treks mean? Also, how much of a "flash" did the explosion generate?

It also works the other way, where the crew see an explosion in real-time from a distance where the light should have taken hours to reach them, and this isn't just due to the viewscreens, as events have been witnessed in a similar way by just looking out the window (from Ten-Forward for example).
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Old June 20 2013, 12:02 AM   #71
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
As to visually seeing the explosion of Ceti Alpha VI at fifteen light-years out, why would they? Do starship main viewers reach that far? What exactly does the "visual range" mentioned in all Treks mean? Also, how much of a "flash" did the explosion generate?
All Federation ships are equipped with long-range sensors. Presumably, anything the sensors detect could be used to generate a visual image on the viewscreen. Hell, Spock was able to get an image of the Romulan bridge in "Balance of Terror" by intercepting a communication from the BOP.

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Old June 20 2013, 12:17 AM   #72
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
As to visually seeing the explosion of Ceti Alpha VI at fifteen light-years out, why would they? Do starship main viewers reach that far? What exactly does the "visual range" mentioned in all Treks mean?
It means that the writers are trapped by Earthbound thinking, the unquestioned assumption that horizons exist. Asking how far your view "reaches" in space doesn't make any sense. If you're in a dark, clear enough area at night and look in the right part of the sky, then you can see the Andromeda Galaxy, 3 million light-years away, with the naked eye. Our best telescopes can see all the way to the edge of the observable universe, 13.8 billion light-years away. It's not a question of how far your vision reaches, just a question of how bright the thing you're looking at is and how sensitive your detector is. We can see a galaxy 3 million ly away with the naked eye because it's big and bright enough, but our best telescopes are still discovering red dwarfs less than 10 ly away because they're really, really dim.

So "visual range" would have to mean the resolution limit of whatever cameras/telescopes you're using. It probably refers to sufficient proximity to make out detail, as opposed to simply seeing a speck of light and getting spectroscopic data from it, say.


Also, how much of a "flash" did the explosion generate?
Anything powerful enough to destroy a planet would have to involve a hell of a lot of energy. The gravitational binding energy of the Earth, the amount of energy you'd need to pump into it to blow it to pieces, is equivalent to the Sun's total energy output for one week. A week is about 10,000 minutes, so if we assume that Ceti Alpha VI was comparable in mass to the Earth (since it and Ceti Alpha V could be so easily confused) and that it took, say, 10 minutes for the planet to fully disintegrate, then the energy involved would be about 1000 times the intensity of Sol's light. This would be nearly as bright as the star Alpha Ceti itself.

Not to mention that as the debris and dust spread out, it would create an observable debris disk, or -- depending on the angle of the orbital plane relative to the ship -- occult the star and cause a dimming of its light. The effect of the dust cloud might also affect the spectrum of the star's light passing through it or reflected off it. And the dust and debris itself would radiate in infrared, creating a detectable signature. These are the kinds of things that let us detect protoplanetary nebulae and debris disks around distant stars.


It also works the other way, where the crew see an explosion in real-time from a distance where the light should have taken hours to reach them, and this isn't just due to the viewscreens, as events have been witnessed in a similar way by just looking out the window (from Ten-Forward for example).
The technical term for that is "mistake." Which is kind of the point -- that TWOK is loaded with them. As indeed is most SF film and TV, because its writers think that SF allows a level of sloppy research that would rarely be considered acceptable in any other medium. (I've never seen a story set in Paris that assumed it was in Antarctica, its people spoke a made-up language, and the Eiffel Tower was a thousand miles high. People writing in other genres generally do at least a modicum of research rather than just pulling random nonsense out of a hat.)
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Old June 20 2013, 04:24 PM   #73
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Anything powerful enough to destroy a planet would have to involve a hell of a lot of energy.
But that would definitely be a "blink and you miss it" thing. Not because the event would only take an eyeblink, but because passing through its image in a starship would.

Before and after the event, the star system might look pretty much the same from a distance. Planets at first, rubble later, but the difference would not be all that noticeable, especially as the Reliant would be maintaining the "blink-and-miss" speeds well past the 15 ly distance where the explosion itself would be visible, and only slow down at a distance corresponding to a date allowing for a full decade of cooling and settling.

Supposedly, studying of targets by their "onion shells" of historical vistas is not something Starfleet would be bothered to engage in anyway, as they can get realtime information with FTL sensors at certain distances (in TNG, typically less than a dozen lightyears) and can reach those distances easily enough if they are interested in the target in the first place.

The ability to say "there's a Class F planet in this system, with signs of early industrial era" at a distance is consistent with "realistic" scanning techniques: information like this can easily be decades old and divined from low-resolution spectrography. Yet it is very rarely that our heroes are able to tell that such a planet has been recently bombarded, deserted or made to disappear, unless they utilize FTL techniques reserved for targets of established interest. And "going there" is a good FTL technique, trumping "looking" because eventually you are going to go there anyway!

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Old June 24 2013, 12:26 AM   #74
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

The problem, obviously, is that that records in the 23rd century are kept by a Wikipedia-style system, and the attempt to enter in a line about ``Ceti Alpha VI exploded'' was immediately flagged and then deleted as violating the Original Research policy.
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Old June 24 2013, 12:29 AM   #75
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Nebusj wrote: View Post
The problem, obviously, is that that records in the 23rd century are kept by a Wikipedia-style system, and the attempt to enter in a line about ``Ceti Alpha VI exploded'' was immediately flagged and then deleted as violating the Original Research policy.
Why are you assuming there would be a record in the first place? How do you know any Federation ship visited the system before Reliant traveled there?

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