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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 19 2013, 12:49 PM   #46
Kpnuts
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Man of Steel was awful. How many films can that movie rip off? Matrix, Independence Day, District 9, Alien, Avatar. The last third of the film in particular was garbage, just boring.
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Old June 19 2013, 01:22 PM   #47
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Kpnuts wrote: View Post
Man of Steel was awful. How many films can that movie rip off? Matrix, Independence Day, District 9, Alien, Avatar.
You know that the Superman origin story predates all of those right? The Matrix fight over the city between Smith and Neo, which is what I'm assuming you were referencing, was based on Superman, not the other way around. You think Neo flying around with a trenchcoat/cape was the first time that ever happened and that the Wachowskis weren't doing an homage to anyone there?

Superman was an alien refugee story long before District 9, dealt with alien invasions way before Independence Day, and had an alien living among the natives and taking their side well before Avatar. Not sure what the Alien connection is supposed to be. The production design of the Kryptonian ships and architecture? The cryopods in the scoutship? The HR Giger dark biomechanical designs were fairly unique at the time, but it's pretty commonplace now. And cryopods have been part of scifi for decades.
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Old June 19 2013, 01:37 PM   #48
Lance
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Bones wrote: View Post
This question is perplexing me. Taking into account US & International sales, Iron Man did $1B+ & Man Of Steel appears on its way to $1B. STID did $400m, clearly a hit but not in the same league as the other two.

How is this possible?
You said it yourself. The bottom line is that Star Trek just isn't in the same league as those other two. Both ST2009 and STID have done exceptionally well for Star Trek pictures, but Star Trek isn't (and never has been) a draw for the general public in the same way as other major hollywood blockbusters like those you mentioned. The last time Paramount tried to put the franchise up against the big guns in 2002, the very same strategy as with STID, they ended up with Nemesis going down like the Titanic.

Bottom line: Star Trek isn't the broad crowd puller that Paramount thinks it is. The franchise stands more chance of success if they don't put it up against movies with much better street cred. I don't doubt that the 2009 Star Trek got a lift because it wasn't going up against competition anywhere near as strong as Iron Man 3.
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Old June 19 2013, 01:48 PM   #49
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
I really disagree, I find Superman's origin beyond boring. All you need to know is that he's an alien, his homeworld blew up, and he survived and was raised by nice folks on Earth. The countless interpretations of it, with Jor-El as a quasi action hero or as a hologram that never stops bothering his son drive me nuts.

Okay then - since you don't get Superman at all, you're not going to understand why audiences so much prefer Man Of Steel to Into Darkness.

As someone who absolutely loved STID and wants it to do well, it's crystal clear to me that MOS is the superior movie by far.

That is why it's kicking Star Trek's ass at the box office.

The audience is always right.
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Old June 19 2013, 01:58 PM   #50
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Lance wrote: View Post
Bottom line: Star Trek isn't the broad crowd puller that Paramount thinks it is. The franchise stands more chance of success if they don't put it up against movies with much better street cred.
ST:TMP performed well - and had a very broad demographic - because it followed almost a decade of TOS (and TAS) repeats in syndication, and at times when children could watch with their parents: early evening prime time.

It hasn't had the same "crowd puller" value ever since. Certainly, the success of TNG in first-run syndication in Seasons 3-6 (its peak?) had merchandising running high, but it was perhaps all downhill since then - with the latter series screening later and later to fewer and fewer - until Bad Robot revived things in 2009.
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Old June 19 2013, 02:05 PM   #51
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Superman would have kicked Star Trek's arse at the boxoffice whether it was a good film or not. As a franchise it's far more appealing to the mainstream audience than Star Trek
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Old June 19 2013, 02:11 PM   #52
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

I don't think people avoided ST:ID - after all it's the most successful Trek movie ever made! I think that the marketing was too downbeat though and if it had been promoted as more of an Indiana Jones style romp then I think it'd have made more money.

Superman's success is likely due to the excellent first film starring Christopher Reeve. Everyone wants the next S-man film to be that good! I also think that pretty much everyone has forgotten Superman Returns, so there weren't the skeptics that there were for say the amazing Spiderman reboot.

For what it's worth, I thought Superman was terrible, if you're interested, here are my reviews of ST:ID and MOS:
http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/
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Old June 19 2013, 02:16 PM   #53
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

The success of MOS was not driven by a thirty-five year-old movie that everyone doesn't agree was "excellent."
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Old June 19 2013, 02:17 PM   #54
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

JamesRye wrote: View Post
I also think that pretty much everyone has forgotten Superman Returns, so there weren't the skeptics that there were for say the amazing Spiderman reboot.
I prefered Superman Returns. It's far more true to the character of Superman. I've never seen Superman give less of a shit about saving people than he does in MOS
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Old June 19 2013, 02:18 PM   #55
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Man of Steel is the best superhero movie I've ever seen.

I tried to watch Superman Returns the other night and it put me to sleep.
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Old June 19 2013, 03:12 PM   #56
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post


The audience is always right.
I guess that means you think Transformers and Twilight are excellent films then.
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Old June 19 2013, 03:20 PM   #57
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

You may go on guessing whatever makes you comfortable.


BillJ wrote: View Post
Man of Steel is the best superhero movie I've ever seen.

I tried to watch Superman Returns the other night and it put me to sleep.
Damn straight.
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Old June 19 2013, 03:20 PM   #58
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Vyse wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post


The audience is always right.
I guess that means you think Transformers and Twilight are excellent films then.
What we think doesn't matter, its whether those films sell enough tickets to make the studios a healthy profit.

And they do. Because people buy tickets to them by the fistful.
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Old June 19 2013, 03:29 PM   #59
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

Just pointing out that it doesn't make much sense to say that simply because a film makes more money doesn't mean it's better. Not to mention that is all subjective. X-Men 3 made a lot more than X-Men First Class, yet most people would say that First Class is clearly the better film.

There are a lot of other factors, like marketing, timing, etc... . If you thought MOS was better than STID, I respect your opinion. But I also respectfully disagree with it. I thought MOS was good, not great. I found IM3 to be very boring and silly, yet IM3 will be the highest grossing movie this summer. My opinion is that STID is the best of the summer blockbusters so far.
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Old June 19 2013, 03:47 PM   #60
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Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

More movie-goers disagree with you than agree with you by the only real standard of measurement. It's illogical to assert that "most people would agree" about the relative quality of two X-Men movies if the behavior of movie-goers contradicts that. What you're asserting is no more than "I've heard more people say this than say that."
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