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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 19 2013, 03:27 AM   #466
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
I just remembered a thought I had during the Battle of Smallville. I kept wondering if that big guy he who was fighting with Faora could have been Non.
Are you talking about the same guy that carried a Faora onto her ship after she collapsed due to the air?


Also, considering how tough Faora was throughout the film, that moment where she was vulnerable was definitely a contrast.
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Old June 19 2013, 04:30 AM   #467
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
I just remembered a thought I had during the Battle of Smallville. I kept wondering if that big guy he who was fighting with Faora could have been Non.
That was Nam-Ek.
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Old June 19 2013, 04:44 AM   #468
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Faora and Nam-Ek are both the names of Silver/Bronze Age Superman villains from Krypton.
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Old June 19 2013, 05:57 AM   #469
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

To be honest, I'm not sure what the point was using the name Faora when they made the character look so much like Ursa.
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Old June 19 2013, 06:03 AM   #470
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Faora came first historically. Ursa was a rename for the Donner film.
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Old June 19 2013, 06:24 AM   #471
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I am not going to say anything what fans havent said: the movie is fucking awesome and I enjoyed every little moment about it, from start to finish. A+ for me! This is the Superman movie we fans have been collectively begging for Hollyweird to give us. It had a perfect mixture of action, story, romance and suspence. I was at the edge of the seat from beginning till end. Every actor put in their best performance for their respective roles. From Henry Cavill to Russell Crowe, from Michael Shannon to Kein Costner, it was just simply an amazing movie. The only flaw, which is minutely minor, is that the movie color palette was a bit too grayish. But it didnt distract at all. Again, simply amazing movie!

A bit off topic but I must add: few weeks ago there was such a hullabaloo about the Dr. Carol Marcus underwear scene in STiD and certain feminists and male apologists were up in arms about it. Yet when they show a kick-ass female character in Faora-UL in MoS, who was IMO cooler and much more badass than Gen. Zod himself, not a peep from any woman who says they are happy about it. The silence about Antje Trau's amazing performance is defeaning and absolutely hypocriticial.
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Old June 19 2013, 06:53 AM   #472
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Well, it seems that Chris Nolan was against Superman killing Zod. But he was turned around by Goyer and Snyder.
And I understand their reasoning. His aversion to killing is set right there, but we also can see that if push comes to shove, he'll do what he has to.

What sold me was the reaction of Cavill in that scene. He made it work for me, without the justification being spelled out by the filmmakers.

What is unclear to me: are the other Kryptonians alive in The Phantom Zone? I figured they would've perished without the benefit of an intact ship and whatever they were encased in originally when sentenced to the zone. I'd hate for Col. Hardy to be sentenced to an eternity in the zone, unless he and Faora hook up! You just know they had some sexual tension!!
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Old June 19 2013, 07:11 AM   #473
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Tommunist wrote: View Post
Well, it seems that Chris Nolan was against Superman killing Zod. But he was turned around by Goyer and Snyder.
And I understand their reasoning. His aversion to killing is set right there, but we also can see that if push comes to shove, he'll do what he has to.

What sold me was the reaction of Cavill in that scene. He made it work for me, without the justification being spelled out by the filmmakers.
Would be interesting if they riffed off that moment as the reason why Superman never kills. He refuses to take another life because he knows exactly how it feels to do just that.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:25 AM   #474
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

middyseafort wrote: View Post
Would be interesting if they riffed off that moment as the reason why Superman never kills. He refuses to take another life because he knows exactly how it feels to do just that.
I believe that is exactly their intent.

I'm glad I stayed away from spoilers for this film. That turn of events was an actual surprise for me. Even after the other Kryptonians were taken care of, leaving only Zod, it never occured to me that Supes would be forced to "end him". I thought they wrote themselves into a corner. I was wrong!

I enjoyed STiD very much, but nothing outright "surprised" me about the choices the filmmakers made. It was more like "Hmmm...That's an interesting direction"...
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Old June 19 2013, 07:41 AM   #475
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Faora came first historically. Ursa was a rename for the Donner film.
Yet the general audience just sees Ursa with a different name.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:47 AM   #476
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I don't think the general audience cares enough about Ursa to be up in arms about the character being named Faora in MoS.
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Old June 19 2013, 07:56 AM   #477
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
I just remembered a thought I had during the Battle of Smallville. I kept wondering if that big guy he who was fighting with Faora could have been Non.
I do think it's a shame they didn't make at least one of Zod's men a big, burly looking dumb guy with a beard.

Tommunist wrote: View Post
Well, it seems that Chris Nolan was against Superman killing Zod. But he was turned around by Goyer and Snyder.
And I understand their reasoning. His aversion to killing is set right there, but we also can see that if push comes to shove, he'll do what he has to.

What sold me was the reaction of Cavill in that scene. He made it work for me, without the justification being spelled out by the filmmakers.
For me the point of the scene was in showing just how hard and painful it WAS for Superman to kill somebody. It's not something he takes lightly or just shrugs off like most movie heroes we see; it's something that goes against everything he had ever been taught by his parents, and comes after a lifetime of trying to avoid confrontation and violence.

Which is what made it such a powerful and tragic moment. And yet, at the same time oddly inspiring. Because it shows that this is a superhero who DOES take this stuff much more seriously than most.
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Old June 19 2013, 09:54 AM   #478
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Superman meets Michael Bay's Transformers

I watched the movie and thought it was a disappointment.

First I want to talking about the incredible lack of character development for anyone not named Clark/Superman. Jor-El was played well enough, even though they turned him into an action hero, but I can't believe what they did with Jonathan Kent. Saving those kids in the bus was always the right decision. Hated how he died so dumbly by tornado. It felt too much like Spider-Man with Clark needing to have an argument with his dad before he gets killed. I was pleased with Diane Lane as Martha.

I never expected that much development outside of Clark's family, but all the Daily Planet characters were just there. Perry and all the nameless other people that I didn't know the names of was only there so we could see them running away from falling buildings. At times it felt like the only reason I cared about those people was because I didn't want Perry to die. This movie badly needed more of the iconic Superman supporting cast like Jimmy Olsen and Lex Luthor.

The army soldiers had no personalities. They were only there to shoot at the bad guys and be complete ineffective until the last moment. I only recognized Christopher Meloni. The female officer was only there to stupidly ask "What's terraforming" and say Superman is hot.

The worst thing about Man of Steel is the pacing. The movie refuses to stay still and develop its characters. Its one action scene after another with flashback scenes crudely inserted every couple of minutes. It felt like a ton of scenes were cut from the movie so it could be kept under two hours and thirty minutes. I think it might have been best to present all the scenes in chronological order from Smallville to Clark finally becoming Superman.

Zod's motivation was badly done. He decides to commit genocide on humanity to make it easier for his people to adapt to living on Earth? Talk about completely madman. Is it really that hard to find another planet to make your new home? In the end it turns out that he only did it became it was programed into his DNA. Lame excuse for all his evil actions, it was literally his genes made him do it. I enjoyed Faora much more as a character, she was all business. All the rest of Zod's minions aren't worth mentioning. Even Non in Superman II was more memorable than all the other minions in MOS.

The action scenes. Oh, talk about overload. I mentioned Bay's Transformers earlier, and MOS almost reaches those silly heights. The last 45 minutes would perfectly be described as destruction porn. Too much muchness. Did thousands die at the end? Who the hell knows, since it felt like Supeman was fighting Zod in a city with buildings that were empty. We should have seen thousands of bodies raining onto the ground, but of course we didn't get that since they had to keep the PG-13 rating. It was taken to completely new levels when Superman fights the World Engine with steel octopus arms at the end, not much different from Superman fighting a giant mechanical spider in earlier unused Superman movie scripts. The constant falling of skyscraper after skyscraper became too much, felt too much like Michael Bay cracking evilly as he destroyed as many building as possible and blew up shit in his Tranformers movies. Michael Bay action looks impressive but it doesn't make me 'feel' anything.

Avengers also had a big spectacular fight scene that virtually destroyed a city, but it was so much better done than Man of Steel. We saw the Avengers actively try to contain the fight, help organize the authorities, and save people while fighting off the alien invasion. We also saw how the world reacted to the Avengers and the invasion afterward with at least a token mention of those people that died. Where was the media reacting to Superman introducing himself to the world scenes in the movie? He just shows up and surrenders, and later starts beating the shit out of Zod's minions.

All this movie was nearly devoid of humor. The only parts I remember anyone in the audience laughing at was when Clark destroyed the diner jerk's truck and the girl saying Superman was hot at the end. I'm not looking for Marvelverse level humor here, but more humor would have greatly improved this movie.

The good things.

Henry Cavill did a good job. He wasn't given a much to work with by the writers, but I always believed he was Superman. Hopefully the writers will give him much better material in the inevitable MOS sequel. I hope the suit is also has a bit more color in the sequel too.

Amy Adams was fine in a thankless role. I'm more interested in the sequel now that they have gone with the she knows his identity route.

I guess every single superhero has given up keeping secret identities (at least to love interests), even the last ones that might have considered it important thing like Spider-man, Batman, and Superman. It was done in Smallville too, but Clark wasn't exactly Superman in that series.

All the visual effects looked great, especially Krypton. All the money they spent on the movie certainly showed up onscreen.

Overall, a disappointing start to his franchise, but at least fans finally got Superman punching things. I don't regret watching it since I'm a fan of Superman, but I can't say I was happy with it. I hope they get a much better writer for the next movie.

Last edited by Dream; June 19 2013 at 01:39 PM.
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Old June 19 2013, 10:55 AM   #479
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

sojourner wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Faora came first historically. Ursa was a rename for the Donner film.
Yet the general audience just sees Ursa with a different name.
So you just want the lowest common denominator to win?

Even Smallville used Faora over Ursa when it was time to bring Zod's wife into play.
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Old June 19 2013, 10:59 AM   #480
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Faora came first historically. Ursa was a rename for the Donner film.
Yet the general audience just sees Ursa with a different name.
So you just want the lowest common denominator to win?

Even Smallville used Faora over Ursa when it was time to bring Zod's wife into play.
The comics eventually used Ursa and Non too.
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