RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,708
Posts: 5,431,818
Members: 24,833
Currently online: 466
Newest member: kamkaran


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 12 2013, 03:45 AM   #31
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?
Where temporal anomalies are involved, conventional definitions of "before" and "after" don't apply.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2013, 03:47 AM   #32
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Well, sure, but it suggests a causal discontinuity that I don't think is otherwise implied by the episode.
__________________
"I don't like adventure. I'm a stay-at-home-and-read kind of guy."
Science's Less Accurate Grandmother
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2013, 03:51 AM   #33
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?
When the Bozeman entered the anomaly, it was transported forward in time to 2368, so there was no wait for the Enterprise to show up.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Where temporal anomalies are involved, conventional definitions of "before" and "after" don't apply.
Well said.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2013, 03:51 AM   #34
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Well, sure, but it suggests a causal discontinuity that I don't think is otherwise implied by the episode.
See my reply to your previous post.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 13 2013, 04:26 PM   #35
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Sran wrote: View Post
Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?
When the Bozeman entered the anomaly, it was transported forward in time to 2368, so there was no wait for the Enterprise to show up.
Well, then it wasn't looping through time for 70 years.
__________________
"I don't like adventure. I'm a stay-at-home-and-read kind of guy."
Science's Less Accurate Grandmother
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2013, 03:06 PM   #36
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Well, then it wasn't looping through time for 70 years.
Precisely. What I'm suggesting is that the loop existed only in 2368, so the Bozeman would not have encountered the loop- and the Enterprise- until it traveled forward in time by passing through the anomaly. When the Enterprise became caught in the loop, it experienced the Bozeman's arrival several times before finally breaking the cycle, but the Bozeman would only have experienced the scenario once from its crew's perspective.

I don't know that any of what I'm suggesting makes sense, but it's an explanation that seems to fit the available facts.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2013, 11:53 PM   #37
Zedferret
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

I always looked at is as the Bozeman jumps forward in time, due to a spacial anomaly and immediately encounters the Enterprise, the destruction of which while in the anomaly begins the causality loop. Both ships are caught for 17 days. So the dejavu effects on the Bozeman wouldn't be any worse than on the Enterprise.
Zedferret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14 2013, 11:58 PM   #38
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Zedferret wrote: View Post
I always looked at is as the Bozeman jumps forward in time, due to a spacial anomaly and immediately encounters the Enterprise, the destruction of which while in the anomaly begins the causality loop. Both ships are caught for 17 days. So the dejavu effects on the Bozeman wouldn't be any worse than on the Enterprise.
The Bozeman's time in each cycle of the loop would also be brief, as they only appear just before the collision.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2013, 08:43 PM   #39
Khan Harrison
Ensign
 
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post
In Watching The Clock, one of the Bozeman's crewmembers explained that some people had the notion every now and then something felt 'off' or something like that, but other then that, they never noticed anything.
^No, I went into more depth about it than that.

I'm impressed that the crew was as functional as it was. Surely they had plenty of therapy!
I'm just relived Mr. Bennett didn't forget there was a WOMAN on the bridge of the Bozeman like Miss Carey did.
Khan Harrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2013, 08:47 PM   #40
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Khan Harrison wrote: View Post
I'm just relived Mr. Bennett didn't forget there was a WOMAN on the bridge of the Bozeman like Miss Carey did.
It's really amazing she missed that. The woman's standing right next to Bateson.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2013, 08:49 PM   #41
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Khan Harrison wrote: View Post
I'm just relived Mr. Bennett didn't forget there was a WOMAN on the bridge of the Bozeman like Miss Carey did.
As mentioned above, there were in fact two women on the bridge.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2013, 08:51 PM   #42
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Christopher wrote: View Post
As mentioned above, there were in fact two women on the bridge.
But no George Hill. I wanted to see the decapus.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2013, 02:17 PM   #43
ATimson
Rear Admiral
 
ATimson's Avatar
 
Location: Andrew Timson
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Sran wrote: View Post
Khan Harrison wrote: View Post
I'm just relived Mr. Bennett didn't forget there was a WOMAN on the bridge of the Bozeman like Miss Carey did.
It's really amazing she missed that. The woman's standing right next to Bateson.
Remember when the book was written. She might have had a copy of the VHS, though I wouldn't count on it. More likely she had the script, and her memory (if any) of the episode.
__________________
Andrew Timson
===============
"Niceness is the greatest human flaw, except for all the others." - Brendan Moody

"...don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido
ATimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2013, 03:10 PM   #44
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

ATimson wrote: View Post
Remember when the book was written. She might have had a copy of the VHS, though I wouldn't count on it. More likely she had the script, and her memory (if any) of the episode.
That's a good point, though I'm surprised she wouldn't have had something to verify who was on the Bozeman bridge. Carey has written other novels and likely has contacts within the Trek universe who could help find a video of the episode in question.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2013, 03:42 PM   #45
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

^To be fair, it's not as if continuity errors were unheard of in older novels, before Memory Alpha and Netflix made it easier to check references. There are some doozies here and there. Web of the Romulans and Double, Double are both explicitly placed right before or after first-season episodes, and yet have Chekov as navigator and refer to "The Enterprise Incident" as a past event. DS9: Warchild assumes that the runabouts are Cardassian-made craft that came with the station. Corona suggests that Spock is nearing his eighties in the TOS era, even though his human mother was clearly younger than that. And so on.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.