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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 14 2013, 04:20 PM   #91
Set Harth
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Khaaaaan wrote: View Post
As mentioned previously, we all know Kirk (as the main protagonist) can't die.
For a moment they actually had me convinced they were going to kill off Kirk in the new timeline.

Which would have been extremely bold, and thus did not actually happen.
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Old June 14 2013, 06:53 PM   #92
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

T'Ryl wrote: View Post
gabby_j wrote: View Post
Something I agree with you on:

Carol Marcus

No matter what anyone says, her most memorable scene was stripping. Everything else probably could have been handled by others. If you think about it, Spock could have probably disarmed the torpedo.
Agreed...that entire strip scene did nothing for me but to upset me, and not because of the stripping.

I get Christine Chapel was not a very well liked character, heck, Majel didn't even like her. But one thing the Chapel I watched for years never would have done was jump ship because things went south with her love life or plans.
Um - remember - Christine Chapel CAME ON the original Enterprise (in TOS) because they were going to the planet where her fiancee (Roger Corby) was lost (see the TOS episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of"). After they found the android Corby (and she lost him again) - she decided to stay on the ship.

My point? The character was often motivated into career choices via emotial issues if you go by that episode.
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Old June 14 2013, 11:11 PM   #93
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

T'Ryl wrote: View Post
gabby_j wrote: View Post
I get Christine Chapel was not a very well liked character, heck, Majel didn't even like her. But one thing the Chapel I watched for years never would have done was jump ship because things went south with her love life or plans.
Um - remember - Christine Chapel CAME ON the original Enterprise (in TOS) because they were going to the planet where her fiancee (Roger Corby) was lost (see the TOS episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of"). After they found the android Corby (and she lost him again) - she decided to stay on the ship.

My point? The character was often motivated into career choices via emotional issues if you go by that episode.
And if you remember her behavior where Spock was concerned, maybe she stayed on-board because she always hoped she'd have a chance with him.
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Old June 15 2013, 12:56 AM   #94
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

teacake wrote: View Post
Kanenas wrote: View Post
newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
Bad Robot Trek is still being made. Live action Prime Trek is dead.

People enjoy Bad Robot and Prime Trek.

Should Bad Robot Trek be stopped just because it's not Prime Trek?
Yes, yes it should be stopped.
BEFORE IT RULES THE WORLD!
Its too late - it's got Star Wars in it's grip now!
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Old June 15 2013, 10:29 AM   #95
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

T'Ryl wrote: View Post
But one thing the Chapel I watched for years never would have done was jump ship because things went south with her love life or plans. She confessed to Spock she loved him, even while engaged to Roger Korby. Spent the next 3 years clearly hung up on the Vulcan. So I find it hard to believe that she would have left, just like that.
She went to "the frontier" - perhaps because she heard that a Starfleet ship would be patrolling the area where Dr Corby went missing.
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Old June 15 2013, 11:58 PM   #96
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
TOS had stories written by science fiction writers.
CSI: New York had stories written by criminologists.

Nuff said.

Certainly none of the subsequent Star Trek series were more cerebral.
For that matter, none of TOS was quite as cerebral or as dramatically solid as "The Cage," with the possible exception of "Corbomite Maneuver."

Actually, the next time Star Trek pulled out a real dose of deeply thought-provoking science fiction was The Motion Picture. That was also, IMO, the LAST time.

I think I've watched most science fiction series and movies since TOS until the last couple of years we're frankly is mostly magic and vampires
The Man Trap
Catspaw
Who Mourns for Adonais
Obsession
Plato's Stepchildren
Shore Leave
Wolf in the Fold

Yeah, I've never seen a TOS episode about magic and/or vampires (I mean, unless you think that changing vampires into aliens suddenly makes your story more cerebral ).
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Old June 16 2013, 02:27 AM   #97
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
TOS had stories written by science fiction writers.
CSI: New York had stories written by criminologists.

Nuff said.

Certainly none of the subsequent Star Trek series were more cerebral.
For that matter, none of TOS was quite as cerebral or as dramatically solid as "The Cage," with the possible exception of "Corbomite Maneuver."

Actually, the next time Star Trek pulled out a real dose of deeply thought-provoking science fiction was The Motion Picture. That was also, IMO, the LAST time.

I think I've watched most science fiction series and movies since TOS until the last couple of years we're frankly is mostly magic and vampires
The Man Trap
Catspaw
Who Mourns for Adonais
Obsession
Plato's Stepchildren
Shore Leave
Wolf in the Fold

Yeah, I've never seen a TOS episode about magic and/or vampires (I mean, unless you think that changing vampires into aliens suddenly makes your story more cerebral ).
I cringe at my quote. I as usual wasn't very articulate. I just mean that most recent so called science fiction shows involve magic and vampires and the like.

I'm also not saying that TOS was pure science-fiction. Mostly it was not - mostly it was allegory.

Still if you ignore the drama, science simplification and character interaction there were episodes like the Domesday Machine, the time-travel episodes, Operation Annihilate, Charlie X, What Are Little Girls Made Of, All Our Yesterdays and even Spock's Brain. These are IMO science-fiction episodes.

And I'm not so familiar with the other series by episode name but VOY 'Year of Hell' and just the Borg themselves are sci-fi.
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Old June 16 2013, 02:57 AM   #98
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I just mean that most recent so called science fiction shows involve magic and vampires and the like.
And COMPARED TO THOSE, Into Darkness was actually pretty cerebral.

Still if you ignore the drama, science simplification and character interaction there were episodes like the Domesday Machine, the time-travel episodes, Operation Annihilate, Charlie X, What Are Little Girls Made Of, All Our Yesterdays and even Spock's Brain. These are IMO science-fiction episodes.
Sure. Just not overly sophisticated ones in hindsight. Very good for their time, but competition back then was slim to nonexistent.

OTOH, the last two Star Trek movies have been chock full of drama, science simplification and character interaction including a flashy little bit of time travel craziness.

It just seems to me ST09 and STID both fit right in with TOS. The perception that it doesn't seem to be as visionary or as groundbreaking as TOS is because TOS is no longer visionary or groundbreaking by 2013 standards.

And I'm not so familiar with the other series by episode name but VOY 'Year of Hell' and just the Borg themselves are sci-fi.
And except for the gratuitous use of the reset button at the end, "Year of Hell" has alot of the same strengths as ST09 and STID.

You're basically trying to compare a 2013 movie to the PERCEPTION of the RELATIVE qualities of a 1968 TV series. That comparison falls apart the moment you try to imagine how Into Darkness would have been received if it had been released in 1968. And not even just the special effects; picture the storyline from ST09 or STID superimposed on the 1968 visuals and sets, TOS music, TOS special effects. Set all those things equal, and THEN compare STID to the original series.
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Old June 17 2013, 04:09 PM   #99
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

I just can't see the Prime crew doing the things that the nucrew do in STID. I can't imagine Prime Kirk following Marcus' orders. And I just can't imagine Shatner Kirk ever allowing the enemy to use him as a hostage. It defies my imagination.

I'm also interested in the names of the sophisticated science fiction series that put TOS to shame.
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Old June 17 2013, 06:03 PM   #100
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

I can't imaging the new crew behaving the way they did with the same number of years of experience under their belts as the old crew. A lot of people seem to forget everyone is nearly a decade younger than in the original. People can change considerably over a decade.
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Old June 17 2013, 06:32 PM   #101
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I just can't see the Prime crew doing the things that the nucrew do in STID. I can't imagine Prime Kirk following Marcus' orders.
NuKirk didn't either.

And I just can't imagine Shatner Kirk ever allowing the enemy to use him as a hostage.
You can't imagine Day of the Dove, Space Seed or Star Trek V and VI?

It defies my imagination.
Your imagination is shockingly limited.

I'm also interested in the names of the sophisticated science fiction series that put TOS to shame.
Hell, compared to TOS even Stargate manages to come off as intelligent. Like I said, the 1960s didn't exactly set the bar very high.
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Old June 18 2013, 06:41 AM   #102
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I just can't see the Prime crew doing the things that the nucrew do in STID. I can't imagine Prime Kirk following Marcus' orders.
NuKirk didn't either.

And I just can't imagine Shatner Kirk ever allowing the enemy to use him as a hostage.
You can't imagine Day of the Dove, Space Seed or Star Trek V and VI?

It defies my imagination.
Your imagination is shockingly limited.

I'm also interested in the names of the sophisticated science fiction series that put TOS to shame.
Hell, compared to TOS even Stargate manages to come off as intelligent. Like I said, the 1960s didn't exactly set the bar very high.
Look I can't quote quotes but I'll address your points in order.

I don't believe PrimeKirk would have ever entertained obeying Marcus' orders. But that's just my opinion. And as others have pointed out nuKirk isn't as experienced as PrimeKirk but you asked me to put STID in TOS.

I don't believe Kirk ever allowed himself to be used successfully as a hostage. There was always either a plan or he got himself out of it with help. But nuSpock was sort of blackmailed using nuKirk. It wasn't nuKirk who got them out of the problem but nuSpock's cunning plan.

Now for Stargate. I really think thought that the series (not the movie) was a bit too silly for me. Maybe its just too sophisticated and I didn't realise.
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Old June 18 2013, 04:09 PM   #103
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I don't believe PrimeKirk would have ever entertained obeying Marcus' orders. But that's just my opinion. And as others have pointed out nuKirk isn't as experienced as PrimeKirk but you asked me to put STID in TOS.
Which is, again, entirely beside the point.

Because if the writers had wanted Kirk to be in a situation like that in 1968, he WOULD have. And that's the question being asked here: if Star Trek Into Darkness had been made in 1968 instead of 2013, would it really have been unusual compared to the rest of TOS? Especially bearing in mind episodes like "The Errand of Mercy" and "The Enterprise Incident," I think it would have been received as unusually good.

I don't believe Kirk ever allowed himself to be used successfully as a hostage.
My emphasis. To paraphrase Spock, "And since he was not used successfully in this case your record remains untarnished."

Now for Stargate. I really think thought that the series (not the movie) was a bit too silly for me. Maybe its just too sophisticated and I didn't realise.
It's not. Not at all. But it's still measurably deeper than TOS.
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Old June 18 2013, 04:13 PM   #104
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Now for Stargate. I really think thought that the series (not the movie) was a bit too silly for me. Maybe its just too sophisticated and I didn't realise.
It's not. Not at all. But it's still measurably deeper than TOS.
No.

The Stargate TV shows are mediocre, cheesy and disposable fun with no sophistication or ambition whatever - and turning down the stage lights on Universe didn't actually turn it into gripping adult TV, either.
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Old June 18 2013, 04:26 PM   #105
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

But it did save on the electric bill. So it's got that going for it.
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