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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 18 2013, 10:10 AM   #376
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
It was on a card the first time you see the city - there were other location cards throughout the movie as well. I think it was in the lower left, so it was easy to miss, especially if you were watching in 3D or IMAX. It may have been said somewhere else, but I remember the card for sure.
One of the army guys said it in the plane.
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Old June 18 2013, 10:40 AM   #377
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
And he was so fucked up over that that he exiled himself into space which opened a can of worms with Mongul. If Superman could have just gotten over himself, owned what he did, Coast City would have been fine and Hal Jordan would not have decimated the Green Lantern Corps.
Guy I think you have confused things. Coast City was destroyed post-Superman vs Doomsday. Supes was dead at the time and everyone believed the Cyborg Superman was the real one. Cyborg Supes blasted through the Eradicator and decimated Coast City. Which lead to Hal Jordan going mad with grief and becoming Parallax.
No sir, I'm just stretching the timeline like taffy. The Exile, becoming a Gladiator on Warwold is when Kal-El and Mongul first met Post Crisis. During the Exile is when they learnt to dislike each other and when Mongul decided to one day sooner or later kill Superman. So, as you said yeeeeeeeeeeeeears laters Mongul is working for the Cyborg Superman Hank Henshaw and together (Hank orders him to do it, but Mongul does all the heavy lifting.) they destroy Coast City transforming it into an engine as the first step towards making a new Warworld.

If Mongul never met defeat at the hands of Superman, the Cyborg Superman would never have had the tools to make a new War world, so who knows then how he would have expressed his inner asshole during the climax of the Reign of the Supermen?

However without Coast City biting it, a lot of good stuff upstream wouldn't have happened. Which is a discussion Booster Gold had with his sister a couple years ago when they were lost in time, and had to deal with the anihilation of Coast City all over again.

"You can't let 6 million people die Booster!"

"I can, and I must, lets just get out of here before we die too."
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Old June 18 2013, 10:53 AM   #378
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Just saw this last night. I'd dearly love that time back in my life so I could do something more productive with it. What an absolutely awful movie. No plot to speak of other than fighting, wooden acting, sexist to a severe degree, and mostly concerned with smashing up buildings. Cinematography was heavily derivative of much better productions, and half the movie seemed to be watching Kryptonian technology open and shut. Utterly mindless and with the depth of a mirage, with no fun to take the place of sense.

D-
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Old June 18 2013, 11:07 AM   #379
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Hey, that's a big step up form the punch in the balls the last Superman movie was.
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Old June 18 2013, 11:10 AM   #380
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

cultcross wrote: View Post
Just saw this last night. I'd dearly love that time back in my life so I could do something more productive with it. What an absolutely awful movie. No plot to speak of other than fighting, wooden acting, sexist to a severe degree, and mostly concerned with smashing up buildings. Cinematography was heavily derivative of much better productions, and half the movie seemed to be watching Kryptonian technology open and shut. Utterly mindless and with the depth of a mirage, with no fun to take the place of sense.

D-
Thank god, I was beginning to think I'd seen a different film to everyone else in this thread.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Hey, that's a big step up form the punch in the balls the last Superman movie was.
I would happily see Superman Returns rather than this.


Oh and apparently...

From IGN

The WTC estimates that in the days after the attack, 129,000 people would be confirmed killed, nearly a million would be injured, and over a quarter of a million would still be missing. The impact “seemed to be similar to an air burst from a 20kt nuclear explosion in terms of shock effects, but without the radiation or thermal effects.”
Additionally, some $700 billion in physical damage would be done to the city. Cleanup, economic impact, and other costs would eventually bring that number into the trillions of dollars. (To give that number some real-world context, one of the worst events in U.S. history -- the 9/11 attacks -- cost $55 billion.)
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Old June 18 2013, 11:10 AM   #381
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
And he was so fucked up over that that he exiled himself into space which opened a can of worms with Mongul. If Superman could have just gotten over himself, owned what he did, Coast City would have been fine and Hal Jordan would not have decimated the Green Lantern Corps.
Guy I think you have confused things. Coast City was destroyed post-Superman vs Doomsday. Supes was dead at the time and everyone believed the Cyborg Superman was the real one. Cyborg Supes blasted through the Eradicator and decimated Coast City. Which lead to Hal Jordan going mad with grief and becoming Parallax.
No sir, I'm just stretching the timeline like taffy. The Exile, becoming a Gladiator on Warwold is when Kal-El and Mongul first met Post Crisis. During the Exile is when they learnt to dislike each other and when Mongul decided to one day sooner or later kill Superman. So, as you said yeeeeeeeeeeeeears laters Mongul is working for the Cyborg Superman Hank Henshaw and together (Hank orders him to do it, but Mongul does all the heavy lifting.) they destroy Coast City transforming it into an engine as the first step towards making a new Warworld.

If Mongul never met defeat at the hands of Superman, the Cyborg Superman would never have had the tools to make a new War world, so who knows then how he would have expressed his inner asshole during the climax of the Reign of the Supermen?

However without Coast City biting it, a lot of good stuff upstream wouldn't have happened. Which is a discussion Booster Gold had with his sister a couple years ago when they were lost in time, and had to deal with the anihilation of Coast City all over again.

"You can't let 6 million people die Booster!"

"I can, and I must, lets just get out of here before we die too."
Ah I see you what you mean. Lol remember when Superman became the crimefighter Gangbuster after killing the Pocket Universe Kryptonians? God the 80's were a strange time for comics.
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Old June 18 2013, 11:12 AM   #382
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

cultcross wrote: View Post
sexist to a severe degree...
I don't begrudge your opinion of the movie, though I disagree, but this surprises me. Can you elaborate?
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Old June 18 2013, 11:39 AM   #383
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
cultcross wrote: View Post
sexist to a severe degree...
I don't begrudge your opinion of the movie, though I disagree, but this surprises me. Can you elaborate?
Well other than the standard superhero movie damsel in distress set prices which are, I suppose, to be expected with Superman (although how many times can Lois fall off things in two hours, seriously?!), the most noticeable thing that came to mind was that cringeworthy bit with the female Captain at the end. Ugh. That would have looked out of place ten years ago and left a sour taste in my mouth.
No female character added anything of value to the plot and mostly served to get in the way or get threatened - I can't think of one thing Lois did, for example, which actually advanced the plot or was useful other than as a walking memo of a man, Jor El, as all her detective stuff early on came to nothing plot wise as clark handed himself in straight away anyway. And Martha's role was largely wailing and getting in trouble.
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Old June 18 2013, 12:27 PM   #384
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

cultcross wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
cultcross wrote: View Post
sexist to a severe degree...
I don't begrudge your opinion of the movie, though I disagree, but this surprises me. Can you elaborate?
Well other than the standard superhero movie damsel in distress set prices which are, I suppose, to be expected with Superman (although how many times can Lois fall off things in two hours, seriously?!), the most noticeable thing that came to mind was that cringeworthy bit with the female Captain at the end. Ugh. That would have looked out of place ten years ago and left a sour taste in my mouth.
No female character added anything of value to the plot and mostly served to get in the way or get threatened - I can't think of one thing Lois did, for example, which actually advanced the plot or was useful other than as a walking memo of a man, Jor El, as all her detective stuff early on came to nothing plot wise as clark handed himself in straight away anyway. And Martha's role was largely wailing and getting in trouble.
Any of the people fighting for humanity, including Superman, would have been a "memo" for Jor-El, since he was the only one with knowledge about Krypton to impart to them. That still doesn't diminish the courage of Lois, without any powers, taking on Zod's henchmen on the ship in a firefight and saving Kal-El, passing on the details of how to send Zod and the terraforming machine back into the Phantom Zone, and going on the plane on its suicide run toward the terraformer because she had knowledge of Kryptonian technology.

That her detective skills "came to nothing" (I disagree) was by her own choice since she chose not to publish Superman's identity after learning his motives for remaining hidden. That doesn't diminish the hard work and skill she put into finding him, which by the way exceeded the government itself. Nor does it change how tenacious she was in pursuing a story; getting a court order to be allowed to go on a top secret mission to view a possible alien artifact/ship. Also, she was shown to be a person of great integrity by sitting on the story instead of publishing, no matter who might be hurt by it.

So the damsel in distress charge doesn't really make much sense to me. Can it really be called a damsel in distress when the things that are putting you in peril are all done by choice and include climbing into a crevasse and boarding an alien ship by yourself, getting into a firefight with aliens, and going on a kamikaze run into the blasted out center of a city on a cargo plane with an alien ship aboard that you intend to use to create a singularity?

Plus, Lois never gets starry-eyed over Superman. She more admires him for his selflessness, ethics, and dedication, and never throws herself at him. It's a very gradual, very low-key relationship that is forming between them built on mutual respect and admiration.

Martha Kent was the one who taught Clark to focus his senses and hone his gifts into a finely tuned instrument, and was his rock and his calming influence when he had sensory overload. She was as important to his development as his father was. Plus, I don't recall her "wailing" except at the death of her husband, which seems like it would be an appropriate time. When her house got knocked down on top of her she just brushed it off and told Clark that she was "fine."

What character on the ground, male or female, wasn't running for their lives or cowering in fear in the final battle, and how would that not be a normal response to the mass destruction going on around them? The female Daily Planet assistant (Jenny) was trapped, but so were thousands of other people, including the man and his family who Zod were going to vaporize.

Zod's second in command Faora neither got in the way or was threatened, because she was doing the threatening. Lara-El launched Kal-El's escape craft into space in defiance of Zod as he held her husband hostage, a complete reversal of the damsel in distress scenario. The female Kryptonian council leader told Zod to piss off before she got blasted.

Now the captain saying Superman was "kind of hot" was the only thing I could think of when you mentioned the movie being sexist, but still, I really don't see how a woman finding a demigod who just saved the planet attractive is demeaning to women in any way. The guy would be considered "hot" even if he weren't able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. At least they relegated the women finding Superman dreamy to a minor character and not Lois Lane this time, preferring to keep her attraction more subtle and mature. And even then, it was just an offhand comment by the captain; it's not like she was swooning and collapsing at a Beatles concert or anything.

Anyway, even though I disagree, I appreciate you taking the time to explain your position, and I hope you don't feel like I'm coming down on your opinion harshly or anything. Thanks for replying.
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Last edited by I Am Groot; June 18 2013 at 12:42 PM.
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Old June 18 2013, 12:37 PM   #385
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Maybe the horrendous devastation to Metropolis will lead to the government declaring it No Man's Land!
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Old June 18 2013, 01:32 PM   #386
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Wasn't the first Gulf War because of a lone foetus in a single jar?

I'm awaiting the fan edit where they splice in images of Felicia Day in her "The Guild" Codex outfit, or actually have a tiny CGI Felicia running about the movie screaming "No Zod! No! You will never catch me!" or "Hold me tighter Russell, hold me tighter down there!"

1. Zod was right. The Council brought on the Apocalypse. They mined the core, and Krypton had a month to live. They probably knew it, but wanted to avoid panic, if only that numb nuts Jor-El would just shut up and get with the program. Seriously "Avoiding a public panic" that was a frakking Drinking game for the Dennis Haysbert Administration on 24. THEY FAILED KRYPTON. Maybe you don't kill them, but there's no fucking way they should still be in power. Shouldn't the General of the Armed forces, the absolute Commander of all the military have no military opposition if he had the time to plan an orderly change of power? You know that is, if the planet wasn't a month from blowing up and he didn't have time to plan an orderly change of power? At least Zod was right until Jor-El starts wailing on about Eugenics and who the General plans on cancelling undesirable ill preforming bloodlines... Where the fuck did that come from? I think a very serious discussion about the future of Krypton was cut from the script at some point before everything was solidified. Personally we all remember 2012 with the arks and Deep Impact with the under ground colony... Or Hitch-Hikers Guide to the galaxy with the telephone sanitizers? THERE WAS A PLAN... Only Zod and Jor-El were probably not invited because they're both reactionary assholes.

2. Zod's people took blood samples. THEY HAD THE CODEX! (Ditto for Into Darkness and the 70 torpedoes full of augmented traits as medicinal as what was running about free range.)

3. Zod adapted to Earth in hours. It took Clark years and years worth of training from his parents because he's possibly retarded? Clark Kent on Smallville was definitely retarded and that's why he couldn't fly even though every other Kryptonian could fly after having spent MINUTES on Earth. So that "my parents taught me" speech was bullshit.

4. What the fuck is wrong with Amy's diction? Every time she said "Perry" it sounded like "Harry". I seriously thought they gave the Editor in Chief of the Daily Planet a new name because they were too much a pack of punk pussies to award an African American the surname of "White". Meanwhile why was Perry always screaming out to see if "Jenny" was all right? Are they ####ing? That's a bit of an age difference there? And she's an employee!

5. Guardian? Reeeeeeeeeealy. Why call him Guardian, but given him the wrong civilian name? Fuck you.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:09 PM   #387
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Good movie, great explosive moments, huge music and speed, some brilliant fx but massively flawed. It didn't feel like Superman but instead and mix cut and paste of other movies. Starts out a bit too Suckerpunch or Starwars style with a planet of space ships and those flying dinosaurs, and wasn't sure about the corrupt control freak councilors and dictators having the civil war on the planet, it seemed a little forced. I enjoyed Crowe and Michael Shannon. the action was fast and frantic but maybe it could have been wrote better, it didn't feel like Krypton and how many times do we have to rewatch the origins story anyways?!?!? I've been spoiled by correct Superman stories. I've watched the JLU toon, read a few comics and know Reeve so I know what works and what doesn't. most cartoon and comic fans know this toon and they know the correct Superman. I think Lois and Superman should have had more time together, that's what the Donner films did correct Zod was a minor back story in Superman-I, Lex and Lois are the main story in Superman I and when II finally comes out we see the fugitives from Krypton arrive. There were moments in the movie that seemed UN-heroic to me, by beating Zod's people he not only killed Zod but was aborting a whole planet of unborn babies, letting Pa Kent suicide himself in the tornado....I don't know what kind of advice Kent was giving him at times. He seemed a little un-heroic and the fight with Zod...it seems every time Superman would punch someone innocent townspeople would feel the impact and fire of the battle or the city slickers and office workers would watch the world around them fall apart. It just felt that sometimes Superman was putting minimum effort into protecting the people, every time he punches Zod he causes another 911 WTC style collapse. I loved the fx but the final fight was both thrilling, disturbing and tiresome, and endless sequences of WTC 911 imploding buildings. A good effort but not Superman material and a far cry from the real Superman which was more upbeat, more humor and that classic theme, the John Williams musical score. It is not really Superman but more a flying version of Conan the barbarian from space, it is "C" material
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Old June 18 2013, 02:53 PM   #388
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
And he was so fucked up over that that he exiled himself into space which opened a can of worms with Mongul. If Superman could have just gotten over himself, owned what he did, Coast City would have been fine and Hal Jordan would not have decimated the Green Lantern Corps.
Guy I think you have confused things. Coast City was destroyed post-Superman vs Doomsday. Supes was dead at the time and everyone believed the Cyborg Superman was the real one. Cyborg Supes blasted through the Eradicator and decimated Coast City. Which lead to Hal Jordan going mad with grief and becoming Parallax.
Actually, Guy's pretty on-target. Cyborg Superman worked with Mongul, who was looking to get revenge on Superman for deposing him from Warworld. The whole plan was to turn Earth into another Warworld for Cyborg Superman and Mongul. If Superman had never exiled himself to space, he might not have run into Mongul and Warworld. Mongul would never have lost Warworld, hence not needing to turn Earth into a new Warworld, so no Coast City destruction.

Furthermore, the solar flare which affected one space shuttle containing Hank Henshaw and his crew (including his wife) was what turned Hank into a cyborg (who would later return as Cyborg Superman). This flare was caused when Superman threw the Eradicator into the sun. The flare lead to an accident (reminiscent of the Fantastic Four's origin), which lead to the deaths of his crew, including his wife, which gave him a mad on for Superman. He jumped into Superman's rocket and headed for space, where he met Mongul.

So, in other words, Guy's correct. Without killing Zod, Superman would not have felt the need to exile himself off Earth. He would not have run into Mongul when he did, which not only lead to him fighting, shaming, and getting Mongul kicked off of Warworld, which he previously ruled. In addition, it was during this time when he met the Cleric, who had the Eradicator, which Superman eventually threw into the sun, creating the flare which in turn created Cyborg Superman.

That not only removes Cyborg Superman from continuity, it also removes Mongul's need for vengeance and a desire to rebuild Warworld.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:57 PM   #389
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Clark Kent on Smallville was definitely retarded and that's why he couldn't fly even though every other Kryptonian could fly after having spent MINUTES on Earth.
I just think he never even tried. I don't think it would occur to anyone - alien or not - that they could fly.
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Old June 18 2013, 03:16 PM   #390
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

^Except for every other Kryptonion who showed up.
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