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Old June 16 2013, 10:22 PM   #226
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

I guess I "exaggerated" when I said I needed a break.
I have been spending the last days getting Deck 6 ready and discovered some more surprises. I might have Deck 6 ready by tomorrow evening for publication to share these with you.

@ Donny

I'm trying to create a reference in optimal accuracy for myself and those who care and feel they have waited long enough. If a talented 3D artist and accuracy aficionado like yourself can put these to good use, I'll be very happy (because one day I would like to have a walkthrough through an accurate interior of the Enterprise. I will try hard not to make it an inspection tour ).

Last year I rediscovered my first love (TOS), found my way to the BBS (thanks Mytran), noticed the threads of blssdwlf (he ignored the conjectural works of the 70's and instead listened to the actual dialogue which I found most inspiring) and also a number of issues at the Trek BBS which I found rather unnerving and compelled me to do a third and final approach to "illustrate" these issues, and especially that the producers were not wrong but rather our treknological research efforts and/or methods and/or bias because of ...

Technically I do not have the time (I simply took it) but as a close friend of mine noticed I'm currently in some kind of "TOS overdrive" obsession which I believe really helps this deck plan project.

@ blssdwlf

Since the ceiling is getting lower from the outer corridors / cabin doors on Deck 5 towards the cabin walls, I actually look forward to see a cutaway where the curved ceiling of the cabins finally does make some structural sense.

For the (flawed) corridor alignment template I just used the Season One studio set blueprint where some dotted lines suggested the occasional use of a turbo lift at the corridor end near the engine room set.

While there will be a turbo lift there for the upper level of the Season One engine room (set) on Deck 6 as suggested, IMHO, by "Court-Martial", there is none below on Deck 7 as seen (or more accurately not seen) in "The Naked Time".

I believe this is because of the main line running horizontally on Deck 7 (where a turbo shaft would be in the way) before it becomes a vertical line.

I assume all engine rooms seen in Season One (except for the noticably redressed one in "The Conscience of the King") to have either portrayed the port "Engineering Control Room" or the starboard "Impulse Engine Room" (e.g. "Tomorrow Is Yesterday, TAS). The Making of Star Trek suggested this, at least.

When they got more budget for the Second Season Matt Jefferies probably seized the opportunity to redesign the set with a different engine room now portraying the warp drive engine room in the engineering hull (as suggested by the alien entity's departure in "Day of the Dove").

At least that's how I would have done it. The saucer engine rooms had been portrayed in Season One ("Been there, done it"), next he had the opportunity to show us the other one and I believe this is what he last rememberd when asked by Doug Drexler about the engine rooms.

Wait a minute, I'm getting ahead of myself since I wanted to save this for my Deck 7 comment. Alright now, back to me finishing Deck 6, stay tuned.

Bob
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Old June 17 2013, 12:37 AM   #227
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@Bob - if you lower the ceiling to 7' then there won't be any of those braces going across the corridors as the ceiling would cover them up. Something to consider if you want to be screen accurate, IMO.
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Old June 17 2013, 10:56 PM   #228
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@ blssdwlf

I checked the 1966 cabin studio set blueprints and at an outer height of 7' there'd still be space between the outer hull and the top of the cabin set's curved ceiling beam where it hits the backside wall of the cabin (at a height of approx. 6'6").

Interestingly, the director of "Amok Time" (Spock's cabin would have been an outer one) made mostly sure that we didn't see the space above the ceiling beam and regarding this shot I need to add that the overscan of TV sets in the 1960's would have cut the visible excess area in the upper right corner off (did the Thermians use TV sets with or without overscan?).

I think this example just re-affirms what a genius Walter Matt Jefferies was. Why build three different cabin types if you could all get them for the price of one?
  • The angled back walls of the cabin set with windows could suggest a cabin on E-Deck 12 (e.g. "Mudd's Women", "The Enemy Within", "The Man Trap")
  • Exposing the whole height of the cabin set gives you a cabin in the inner area of the main decks
  • Using the camera and stay within the "action safe" area while not showing (on your TV set home, then) what's above the beams gives you a cabin at the outer edge of the saucer.
Bob

P.S. Deck 6 is finished, but now I need to write the text comment before publication. Stay tuned!
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Old June 18 2013, 01:17 AM   #229
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@Bob - I get what you're saying but the details point to a full height interior for Kirk's cabin in "Journey to Babel" (wall is taller than bracing in background), corridors outside are taller than 7' (here, here, here and here). Also note in the last two screens that the ladder is continuing upwards indicating there is something above that deck.
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Old June 18 2013, 09:42 AM   #230
wildstar
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Just like to throw in, be careful how literally you take the wall heights. Remember that the sets didn't have ceilings of course due to having to have lights up there to light the actors. Sometimes lights would be built into the ceilings, or whatever.
See here:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...rumhead047.jpg
Does the wall *really* go up that high? If it does, is there room for a hull etc and still fit?
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Old June 18 2013, 11:15 AM   #231
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Just to be on the safe side here is a link illustrating the issue of overscan: http://scanline.ca/overscan/
I encountered the problem several times when giving my old TOS laserdiscs a spin on our old 4:3 tube TV with moderate overscan (there's more stuff around the edges on a 1:1 Pixel mapping flat screen or front projector), therefore I feel that we are at the liberty to ignore visual information beyond the "safe action area", because the directors didn't expect us to see as much as we can see today with our modern hardware.

@ blssdwlf

I guess what we really should do is take a look at the "cutaway" of the cabin set (Mytran?) and overimpose it in scale into the slanted superstructure of the upper saucer hull. I expect this to be a close call but one that hopefully doesn't stress credibility to a point where it becomes unacceptable.

While the ladder is obvious leading upward, those ladders in the outer corridors don't necessarily provide access to the deck above as the one in "The Naked Time" (Sulu's ascent).

But you are right that my reasoning for Deck 4 (sealed environmental ladder booth near Rand's outer cabin 3F 125) is somewhat inconclusive if the outer cabins on Deck 5 don't feature the same kind of sealed ladder booths.

In this particular case I believe it's another production mistake: The links you provided clearly reveal that Kirk's cabin does not have a bathroom but the "Spock corridor" next to the bedroom section of the cabin.

But the moment they arrive in the inner corridor they put a swing wall there to cover up the Spock corridor. The other way around would have made more sense (and not only to provide Kirk with a captain's bathroom...)

Bob
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Old June 18 2013, 01:16 PM   #232
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

It shouldn't be too hard to throw together a side view, but it is all going to depend on how close to the other hull you place the cabins. Hold on, here we go, three possible options:



Obviously I am guessing a bit on the angle of the upper saucer, but you get the gist; depending on the shot (and how much we see of the upper part of the corridor) it may indeed be possible to nestle the cabins into the sloping hull.
However, the ceiling in the cabin would certainly be visible, which would not match any onscreen representation that I am aware of. Perhaps for (unseen) crew quarters though?

As for the ladders - maybe they lead up into the Enviromental Engineering machinery, rather than across decks?

Finally, since it had to be brought up somewhere and since you've already mentioned Sulu's climb in TNT, what are we to make of Uhura's line:

Sir, level two, corridor three reports a disturbance. Mister Sulu chasing crewmen with a sword.
Does "Level 2" mean "Deck 2"? If so, where? The section of corridor we see does not fit comfortably into the deck section below the bridge. If it is on Bob's Engineering Deck 2 this places the action in the Pylon, where there is even less space!

Where oh where did Mr Sulu do his antics?
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Old June 18 2013, 01:32 PM   #233
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@wildstar - I tend to keep TNG continuity separate from TOS but if I were to tackle the E-D then yeah I'd consider the deck heights as seen and work with it. Will I end up with a radically different version of the ship as presented in blueprints by Sternbach, etc? Probably so - but it would be screen accurate

@Bob - I can already tell you from a 3D perspective 7' is too short. The ladder going up I noticed recently compounds the problem of the cabin being on the outer rim of primary hull. As to the interior cabin door on the side since it doesn't open to the "Spock corridor" at best it could be only a shallow closet.

You should also include in your list of rules an asterisk for "screen accurate only in the safe areas" to clarify your new position, IMHO.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:54 PM   #234
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@Mytran - Since they've used "level" with engineering decks before in other dialogue could Sulu's antics be in the engineering hull 2 levels below the neck?
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Old June 18 2013, 09:51 PM   #235
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@ Mytran

Beautiful and graphic visualizations. Looks indeed like a very close call. Since I already lowered Deck 5 onto Deck 6 in the cutaway draft I could / should either lower it a little more and/or assume an average deck height between 2.7 - 2.8 meters.

@ blssdwlf

Technically speaking there are more people on this planet that experienced TOS on a 4:3 TV tube set with trimming overscan than those that experienced the Blu-ray discs on a 1:1 pixel mapping flat screen - which is neither what the directors intended or foresaw (great, first TNG and now I'm having this kind of discussion for TOS).

As for the briefing room set, the walls extend beyond the upper beam which apparently was a guidance for the director to know how to compose for his safe area. "In-Universe" this empty space above the support beams serves no meaningful purpose.

So when we do have a screencap that reveals empty space above those beams, what would the Thermians do? Deny the structural support performance of these beams and downgrade these to fancy decoration?


As for the "Level 2" subject, I remarked at another BBS thread longer ago, that the outer rim of Deck 7 is so detached from the actual inner Deck 7 that it rather appears to be a lower level of the outer rim of Deck 6, hence "Level 2" in ship's personnel lingo, IMHO.

Bob
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Old June 18 2013, 10:15 PM   #236
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP




Main Deck 6 (130616) – FINAL DRAFT


This one took longer than anticipated and I’ll try to bring some structure into this text comment by dividing it into sections.

Life Support Facilities on Deck 6:

Technically, the only clue ever provided for the location of “life support” was in “Day of the Dove” when the Klingons, unable to disrupt life support from engineering (…) where looking for the actual physical location which happened to be “Number Six Deck” (Be Seeing You?).
Of course, this may have just been the Jefferies Tube where Sulu tried to re-establish life support systems, but also “in-universe” I believe Deck 6 to be a reasonable candidate: Deck 6 is the widest of all decks with rooms in the outer rim; and the shortest way to transport oxygen and heat there would be from a location on Deck 6 (in comparison the vertical routes to transport oxygen and heat to the Bridge or the Phaser Control Room are significantly shorter).

Another hint, though admittedly on the odd side, is the location of “life support” on the upper level of the engine rooms, as suggested by “The Changeling” and “The Tholian Web”.
Assuming the interior layout of the Enterprise is essentially identical to that of the Defiant, it would be odd that “life support” aboard the Defiant happens to be the location, where’d we expect to find the Emergency Manual Monitor aboard the Enterprise. Kirk specifically ordered Chekov to check out “life support” and “engineering”, not to check out “life support” while in engineering nor to check out (correctly) the “Emergency Manual Monitor (EMM)” in engineering.

I’ve interpreted this that Chekov had been in two separate locations, first in life support on the upper level of the Engineering Control Room on the saucer’s port side (where I also suspect the often mentioned “AG Section” for the saucer to be), next in the warp drive engine room of the Defiant in the engineering hull.

Theoretically, they could have redressed the Auxiliary Control Room (ACR) as Life Support Control (LSC) for this episode again, but I believe the EMM set provided a better camera angle to capture Chekov and two dead bodies in one static shot.

We saw a portion of “Life Support Control” in “By Any Other Name” which was a redress of ACR where the noticeably different alignment of the master control table was obviously meant to tell us that this is a different location (since the Kelvans apparently had studied the layout of the Enterprise and relied on the continued assistance of the senior officers I presume “Life Support Control” to be the correct in-universe term - in contrast to the “Deck 22” remark by the blue alien in “In A Mirror, Darkly”).
Looking at the finished draft of Deck 6, now, another (more?) suitable location could be close to the LS & AG section where there is (still) a cabin on the draft. Opinions are much, much welcome!

Although I no longer believe ACR to be at the center of Main Deck 8 (but E-Deck 8 instead) I obviously couldn’t let go of the idea that LSC should be at the protected center of Deck 6.
Like before the (former) Briefing Lounge on Deck 4 and the Officers Lounge on Deck 5 I believe these areas to serve as shelters and/or panic rooms in case of an emergency.
Life Support Control should be in the innermost protected part of the ship from which – in my draft – it is separated by an airlock which contains EVA space suit lockers.
Theoretically an environmental engineer could put a space suit on to fix life support damage in another area of the ship without exposing his colleagues remaining in LSC to decompression. A tri-ladder connects to the Officers and Briefing Lounge above and presumably below to the Core on Decks 7 and 8 (according to The Making of Star Trek).

So when it came to accommodate “Environmental Engineering” featured in “Wink of An Eye” there was little doubt that it’s on this deck, too, add to this I was enabled to make sense of the otherwise stupid gap between the cabin and the redressed briefing room set at 3 o’clock as I put the stairway there Lokai and Bele must have used to descend to reach Transporter Room 4.
The gap is really stupid, because the production extended the interior volume of the EE room towards the cabin set, thus there should have never been a corridor (especially in Season Three!) unless it was for some important reason.

In another thread Maurice lamented about the repetitive use of the briefing room set and I would agree, if all rooms were meant to represent the same size.
However, we never saw how far this EE room extended (let’s use our imagination!), so I made sure to give it more space one might expect such a crucial facility aboard the ship to have (consequently I also expanded the Crew Lounge at 7 o’clock to be capable to detain and feed 40 Klingons…).

Turbo Lift Distribution on Deck 6:

Obviously, the widest deck on the ship is the perfect location to place a horizontal turbo shaft network as this one can connect to vertical shafts to reach all saucer locations without unnecessary detours and waste of previous space.

For the same reason I believe it to have an essential Y-shape and mostly the ends of the corridors connect straight to a turbo lift above or below the main shaft.

Of course, there is an inevitable price to pay, because these horizontal turbo shafts displace the sickbay bedroom sections and therefore it is only possible to accommodate those medical rooms, where the bedroom wasn’t visible in background shots enabling us to assume it’s a storage space instead for medical supplies, stretcher trolleys or replacement sickbay beds (after a patient has died I assume the sickbay bed gets a cover and is thus converted into a coffin).

Thus it was rather easy to identify the location of the medical ward Dr. van Gelder was taken care of in “The Dagger of the Mind” (in my world Ward 3) and where “Lesterkirk” underwent examination in “Turnabout Intruder”.

To assume that the medical ward at 4 o’clock (“?”) is the one from “By Any Other Name” which had no bed under the medical monitor,and had been obviously designed to receive emergencies brought in on stretcher trolleys, would require not to take the wall with the shelf “too seriously”. I’m not sure I can live with that and probably rather relocate events in this episode to a different ward (especially since exam tables can be moved!).

Of course, the starboard turbo shaft also illustrates a problem that comes along with the (longer) Season Two/Three studio set, because it displaces more than it should in a perfect world (were it not for the two decks tall Recreation Room 3 in “Mark of Gideon” I’d think I’m doing Matt Jefferies a disservice if he intended the Season Two/Three corridor to be mostly used as an “outer” corridor).

Since it really screws up the otherwise perfect symmetry as illustrated on the previous Deck 5 draft, the only good explanation, IMHO, has to be “form follows function” and I presume what we see here is the result of an internal addition following the “pilot” Enterprises of Pike and Kirk. Boosting the crew complement from 203 to 430 may have required additional oxygen supplies and/or the removal of the deflector “spikes” at the front of the warp nacelles required the installation of a saucer hull deflector shield generator which is the uncommented area with the three circles between 5 and 6 o’clock.

The starboard turbo shaft also consumes space of the Lokai/Bele transporter room and though it’s a very close call, I believe it to be still an acceptable one.

On the other hand, the port side turbo shaft has rather interesting consequences. Apparently at 1 o’clock, this is an A-frame corridor connecting to the inner and circular one (but not the Jefferies Tube engineering corridor type we’d expect to see at this part of the studio set!), suggesting yet another “turbo lift lobby” (just like the two seen in “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”) or a stairway coming down from Deck 5. Since the security crewmen enter through the A-frame coming from the left, there must be at least some stairs coming up from Deck 7 below and therefore it would be wrong to align this corridor cheek-to-cheek with the turbo shaft.

Medical Wards on Deck 6:

I’ve already mentioned why I put certain facilities there but also added the “exotic” ones because there is neither space on Deck 5 above or Deck 7 below for these. In “Operation Annihilate!” (Season One) we saw the first prototype of the yet to come standard laboratory, but this (radiology) lab was rather large (as you can see in my “in-universe” reconstruction attempt).

The biochemistry laboratory from “The Deadly Years” was closer to the final version but still carried some interesting detail variations which merited it a place of its own IMHO and at 11 o’clock.

With 14 labs of the medical and life sciences departments (according to Kirk in “Operation Annihilate!”) aboard the ship I hopefully got at least two pinned down.

The most interesting “unknown” medical room, was the “astro-medicine isolation ward”. In “Turnabout Intruder” it was just a door sign (6 o’clock) behind Kirk, but what did it look like?

I believe the Animated Series (TAS) provided the illustration by featuring a bedroom with several beds close together and according to “The Lorelei Signal” there…are…four…beds.
So this one is definitely for publiusr who probably started wondering when I was finally going to accommodate some new rooms from TAS.

Transporter Rooms on Deck 6:

I think this one caused me the most headaches trying to illustrate this deck.

Since the transporter room is essentially a rectangular room, I had intended to place it in nice and neat 90° angles towards the central axis (at least that works on the port side).

For the one from “Day of the Dove” (much alike the Marvick turbo lift situation we just discussed recently) I had wanted to put it mirrored to the port side, but then, there should have been horizontal lights at the very beginning of the ride (according to episodes like “Amok Time”, “Wolf in the Fold” and several others), first.

To have come that far, having covered all turbo lift lights in the series (at least that’s what I’d like to believe) and then refrain to rationalization “overdrive” was a no-go for me, so I abandoned my pet theory (not the first in this project) and went with the obvious suggestion, that the “Day of the Dove” turbo lift is next to a vertical shaft (there goes the never seen, never visualized Bridge turbo shaft…) that transits into the diagonal main shaft and thus explains a nonstop “vertical” ride to the Bridge.

The only candidates to accommodate this transporter room were Decks 5, 6 or 7 (Decks 4, 8 and 9 are too small in diameter to accommodate the room). Deck 5 had been taken by Spock’s turbo lift in “Amok Time”, and Deck 7 should be occupied by the starboard impulse engine room (suggested by TAS), thus Deck 6 remained the only available candidate.

As for the numbering of transporter rooms (there are at least three according to TAS) I let the cabin numbering “do the job” in a manner of speaking.

I don’t know yet if “5R” near 6 o’clock could seriously qualify as a section on the wide Deck 6 (that would require the existence of sections A thru R!).
But as the nearest evacuation transporter room (5 or 5 “rear”) it apparently would make better sense, just as 3 (or 3 “forward”/”center”) does for the port side transporter.

Now, which one could / should this transporter on the port side be (the others may not have neat 90° angled positions but at least the distance between those three is even)?

I guess the best inspiration came from “Space Seed” where Kirk had just used a turbo lift to get to Briefing Room 2.

There is no red door on the inner corridor “transporter set walls” (rather unusual for this part of the studio set during Season One!) and his next move to get to the Engineering Control Room (ECR) takes him to the A-frame corridor from where he apparently ran to the left / stern corridor leading down to Deck 7 (either via the tri-ladder at 10 o’clock he also used at the beginning of “Amok Time” or – faster – a stairway in the corridor (not illustrated in the draft) to arrive in the corridor on Deck 7 where Scotty had worked in a Jefferies Tube in “The Naked Time”).
I tried several other attempts to get him through the A-frame corridor to ECR but this was the fastest one to do the job.

When Captain Christopher ("Tomorrow Is Yesterday") tried to escape from the ship he passed “Briefing Room 2”, knocked down a security crewman and went to the transporter room opposite Briefing Room 2, thus that’s the one we’re seeing at 12 o’clock.

Unfortunately, that’s about all I can say about these transporter rooms at the moment, because unlike the TOS sickbay footage I hadn’t compiled a screencap archive of transporter room footage, yet (which episode takes place in which transporter room?).

We do have one where the briefing room set was “Computer Statistics” (“This Side of Paradise”), which obviously can’t be any of the three illustrated (unless CS was later displaced by EE or CL).

We do have one where the door opposite the transporter room belonged to “Electrographic Analysis” (“Elaan of Troyius”) which also can’t be either of these (unless EA was displaced by EE or CL).

To make matters worse, we do have the peek inside the room opposite a transporter room in “Wink of An Eye” which is, of course, production-wise the part of EE we didn’t see first but within the context of the story simply cannot be opposite Transporter Room 4.

This room with the GNDN pipes either belongs to a different, additional transporter room or had become part of the Crew Lounge before or after events in “Day of the Dove”.

While I really don't like the “reconstruction rationalization” I’d like to believe that Transporter Room 4 had been featured in “Elaan of Troyius”. Our protagonists had a vertical/diagonal ride for one third of the route and a horizontal ride for the remaining two thirds.Thus they either arrived at TR 4 or another one “south” of 6 o’clock and outside the space of my draft sheet.

Okay, that has to be it. Feel free to ask questions and/or weigh in with your comments.
Hope you enjoyed the ride! Stay tuned for Deck 7 after a break…

Bob
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Old June 18 2013, 10:22 PM   #237
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
@Mytran - Since they've used "level" with engineering decks before in other dialogue could Sulu's antics be in the engineering hull 2 levels below the neck?
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
As for the "Level 2" subject, I remarked at another BBS thread longer ago, that the outer rim of Deck 7 is so detached from the actual inner Deck 7 that it rather appears to be a lower level of the outer rim of Deck 6, hence "Level 2" in ship's personnel lingo, IMHO.
These are both good theories! I do wonder though:

Blssdwlf
: You're right of course about the use of "levels" with reference to the Engineering sections. We know that "Deck 12" and "Deck 14" are in common use during Season 1, so are you suggesting that these might also double up as (for example) Engineering Levels 2 and 4? Having a different nomenclature to refer to the same areas of the ship does seem overly complicated, although this is the TOS Enterprise we're talking about after all!

Robert_Comsol: Matches the dialogue well, and I like the thought. However, (curvature of the set aside) beyond the standard curved corridor there's 32 feet of straight corridor which ends at a turbolift which also needs accomodating. Is there really 48 feet of space on the "lower level" of the outer saucer?
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Old June 19 2013, 01:32 AM   #238
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
@ blssdwlf

Technically speaking there are more people on this planet that experienced TOS on a 4:3 TV tube set with trimming overscan than those that experienced the Blu-ray discs on a 1:1 pixel mapping flat screen - which is neither what the directors intended or foresaw (great, first TNG and now I'm having this kind of discussion for TOS).
That's interesting but it doesn't change the issue of the ceiling areas being visible even with the safe action area removed/covered over. All the sample pictures I referenced were picked because the safe action area doesn't hide the issue. If the directors really intended to obfuscate the ceiling areas they would've aimed their cameras *down* to avoid showing what's above them.

Second, you're also assuming that Thermians had television screens with an overscan problem which this Thermian would assure you he doesn't

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
As for the briefing room set, the walls extend beyond the upper beam which apparently was a guidance for the director to know how to compose for his safe area. "In-Universe" this empty space above the support beams serves no meaningful purpose.
In your opinion. For all we know those support beams are meaningful but not in a way you imagined it to be.

Keep in mind I'm not suggesting you take a Thermian approach because its pretty obvious that isn't compatible with your methodology (and that's fine since it is your project). But, since you are emphasizing screen accuracy and requesting feedback and these visual issues can't be hidden away with the overscan technicality then they do become legitimate questions, IMHO.

If these cabins are meant to be on the outer slope you're going to be able to see the ceiling inside Kirk's quarters in "JTB" unless they are further in or away from the skin so there is more height allocated to that deck than 7'.

@Mytran - Yep, that's my "level" reasoning And I put letter decks in the primary hull. So numbered "decks" can apply to the whole ship while "levels" to engineering hull and "letters" go the primary hull. I haven't found any counter dialogue yet so that's my thinking for now.
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Old June 19 2013, 12:36 PM   #239
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
In your opinion. For all we know those support beams are meaningful but not in a way you imagined it to be.
In this case I hope that Doug Drexler is commenting in this thread rather soon. He interviewed Matt Jefferies and according to his 1970's Star Trek Posterbook article, Jefferies went for a "Hornblower Effect" and designed various items according to "identification by association" (and in my opinion did a great job doing so). To rationalize these blatantly obvious structural beams to be something else would be missing the target, IMO.

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
But, since you are emphasizing screen accuracy and requesting feedback and these visual issues can't be hidden away with the overscan technicality then they do become legitimate questions, IMHO.
Fair enough. But I thought that the set of restrictions I communicated a couple of posts earlier had made it clear that although screen accuracy has a top priority / weighs in most, it doesn't mean screen accuracy at all cost.

In the "Thermian Approach" you advocate you usually put items under a magnifying glass but totally blend out what the producers of the series had intended to suggest to us. While this may appeal to general audiences, I doubt they would really appreciate the work and effort you put into it.

The people most likely to appreciate your work are devoted TOS fans, but I'd dare to say that most of these / us are well aware of what the producers had intended (e.g. shuttlebay with a U-shaped and straight Observation corridor) and are likely to expect to see this reflected in new deck plans. As a strictly personal and biased opinion I feel we owe the producers and individuals like Matt Jefferies this amount of respect.

And the example of the Galileo shuttlecraft (exterior vs. interior size) is a constant reminder that 100% screen accuracy is not possible, thus we have to find a compromise that's palatable to the majority of Trekkers, which should always be the mission goal. YMMV

Bob
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Old June 19 2013, 02:24 PM   #240
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
In your opinion. For all we know those support beams are meaningful but not in a way you imagined it to be.
In this case I hope that Doug Drexler is commenting in this thread rather soon. He interviewed Matt Jefferies and according to his 1970's Star Trek Posterbook article, Jefferies went for a "Hornblower Effect" and designed various items according to "identification by association" (and in my opinion did a great job doing so). To rationalize these blatantly obvious structural beams to be something else would be missing the target, IMO.
However I'm not rationalizing these structural beams as something other than structural beams. Only that they are supporting the structure in a way that you or I did not imagine it. (Read my comment - it doesn't say that they are not structural beams.)

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
But, since you are emphasizing screen accuracy and requesting feedback and these visual issues can't be hidden away with the overscan technicality then they do become legitimate questions, IMHO.
Fair enough. But I thought that the set of restrictions I communicated a couple of posts earlier had made it clear that although screen accuracy has a top priority / weighs in most, it doesn't mean screen accuracy at all cost.
From your set of rules:

Robert Comsol wrote:
To avoid another “Deck 5 Disaster” I established a couple of restrictions to submit myself to:
· accuracy (compatibility with onscreen footage) always comes first (but obviously isn’t enough to produce satisfactory results)
· areas not seen onscreen can be different from what we expect these to look like
· results have to be credible and reasonable from a real life point of view (“would somebody capable possibly design it this way?”), e.g. turbo shaft network
1. Can accuracy always comes first?
2. Do you need to invoke an ineffective technicality like overscanning to put the ceiling height issue in the not onscreen rule to be able to claim that it is not onscreen and thus you can change it?
3. Can you still be always accurate (see your 1st restriction) and yet make your results seem credible to the way you think it should work?

Why not just simplify all your rules down to these two:
1. I'm going to start with what I see on the screen as a base.
2. I'll change what I need to change to make it fit my vision of how MJ would have built it.

It still would be an impressive bit of work and you wouldn't have me bugging you as much about screen accuracy
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