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Old June 18 2013, 01:10 AM   #16
Dream
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

There won't be a rematch. After a few decades the Dominion will expand far enough and finally arrive in the Alpha Quadrant to annihilate the Federation.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:18 AM   #17
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

^ haha

Well it's more like a rematch/alternate scenario. Given what we saw in DS9. How would you my board comrades and fans of DS9 have run the Federation's war differently.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:24 AM   #18
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Remember this is a hypothetical rematch scenario on how others would've run things differently.
And that excuses your presenting a poor argument how, exactly?

AllStarEntprise wrote:
Also android and hologram rights should only extend to sentient life forms.
That you would use this argument proves my point. Who are you to decide what meets the criteria for sentience?

AllStarEntprise wrote:
As we see in the Dominion War, Federation principles get thrown out the window for the sake of victory. Section 31 and Starfleet using the morphogenic virus, Sisko collaborating in an assassinating a Romulan to get the Romulan empire involved in the war.
Two wrongs don't make a right. The actions taken by both Sisko and Section 31 were wrong. That doesn't justify others resorting to similar behavior in the future just because it's convenient.

AllStarEntprise wrote:
It's easy to remain principled when your way of life isn't threatened. In war things degrade to an us vs them scenario and winning is all that matters.
It's precisely this type of thinking that drove the members of Section 31 to take the actions that made them so deplorable. Despite what they would have us believe, the ends do not justify the means. It is not acceptable to ignore rules and regulations when they become inconvenient, nor is it appropriate to resort to barbarism simply because another person is pointing a gun at you.

Moreover, life's problems- even extreme problems like war- aren't solved by dumping responsibility onto someone else- be it hologram, android, or computer nerds flying remote control ships equipped with smart bombs. Problems are solved when real people work toward a solution that benefits everyone involved. Such solutions are possible not in spite of a governments founding principles, but because of them. To argue that Starfleet was justified to jettisoning its moral compass for the sake of beating the Dominion is a betrayal of everything the Federation stands for.

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Old June 18 2013, 01:25 AM   #19
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

Dream wrote: View Post
There won't be a rematch. After a few decades the Dominion will expand far enough and finally arrive in the Alpha Quadrant to annihilate the Federation.
Unlikely. The Dominion existed for thousands of years without making such an expansion. Why would things be different over the course of a few hundred years?

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Old June 18 2013, 01:30 AM   #20
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

Sran wrote: View Post
Unlikely. The Dominion existed for thousands of years without making such an expansion. Why would things be different over the course of a few hundred years?
Because the Federation is the greatest threat to the Dominion in thousands of years. Better to expand now than end up being surrounded on all sides in a few decades.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:32 AM   #21
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

Dream wrote: View Post
Because the Federation is the greatest threat to the Dominion in thousands of years. Better to expand now than end up being surrounded on all sides in a few decades.
How is a largely benevolent government a threat to the Dominion? This sounds like Changeling propaganda.

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Old June 18 2013, 01:37 AM   #22
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

Changelings had been historically victimized by "solids". Diplomatic talks were a nonstarter. So the Changelings pushed for Domination. The Federation refused to submit to Changeling demands. Remember the Federation ventures into the Gamma Quad were seen as hostile transgressions into Dominion Space.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:39 AM   #23
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

Dominion beats the Federation's ass in six months. Tops.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:43 AM   #24
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Changelings had been historically victimized by "solids". Diplomatic talks were a nonstarter. So the Changelings pushed for Domination. The Federation refused to submit to Changeling demands. Remember the Federation ventures into the Gamma Quad were seen as hostile transgressions into Dominion Space.
That's exactly my point. The Founders perceived the Federation as threat, but that doesn't mean that they actually were. Perception doesn't equal reality, despite what the Great Link would have everyone believe.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dominion beats the Federation's ass in six months. Tops.
Based on what?

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Old June 18 2013, 01:53 AM   #25
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

Probably on the fact that the first wave of reinforcements from the main body of the Dominion was an ass puckering 2800 ships... and earlier in that same episode a force of 1200 ships was an ungodly huge force that outnumbered the good guys 2 to 1.

By all accounts when the Dominion can maintain themselves with just the resources of the Cardassian Union and very nearly win, imagine how many waves of reinforcements they'd be facing with the whole of the Dominion sending wave after wave of reinforcements every one of their world breeding Jem'Hadar by the millions, and assembling ships weekly.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:00 AM   #26
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Probably on the fact that the first wave of reinforcements from the main body of the Dominion was an ass puckering 2800 ships... and earlier in that same episode a force of 1200 ships was an ungodly huge force that outnumbered the good guys 2 to 1.

By all accounts when the Dominion can maintain themselves with just the resources of the Cardassian Union and very nearly win, imagine how many waves of reinforcements they'd be facing with the whole of the Dominion sending wave after wave of reinforcements every one of their world breeding Jem'Hadar by the millions, and assembling ships weekly.
I'll concede that the Dominion's numbers are staggering, but if this is to be a true rematch, then who's the say the Federation fights this battle alone? I'm sure both the Klingons and the Romulans would have a problem with the Dominion once again threatening their borders. The Romulan government changed significantly post-Nemesis, but that wouldn't preclude their military from responding to Dominion incursion.

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Old June 18 2013, 02:05 AM   #27
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

The Klingons would be with the Federation, but the Romulans aren't a given. But even if they are... I don't see it making much of a difference. The three of them nearly lost to the Dominion with just the resources of Cardassia and later the Breen at their disposal as an industrial base to build their fleets and breed Jem'Hadar.

So after their humiliating defeat, I don't see them, even with Odo among them, giving in to an era of good feelings towards the solids. Heck, even Odo was blatantly resentful towards the morphogenic virus. Now factor in that they're holding the Female Founder hostage indefinitely for her "crimes" and by her own admission one changeling is more important than the whole Alpha Quadrant and I think you have them immediately gearing up for the next fight revanchist style.
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Old June 18 2013, 06:08 AM   #28
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

But alas my friends. Recall that Romulus no longer exists. While the Romulan Star Empire has potentially hundreds of conquered worlds and potential colonies where Romulans might still exist. I doubt they will seriously involve themselves in conflict of that magnitude with their races being nearly extinct.

If we decide to ignore JJTrek's meddling with the Prime timeline. We have to look at the dreadnought class Scimitar ships. With their extreme armaments, perfect cloak that can be activated while disruptors and torpedoes are fires, enhanced shields, and the planet encompassing thalaron weapon. If the Romulans were involved in another Dominion War the Federation would be hard pressed to prevent them from using that bio weapon. Hell a fleet of Scimitar class ships would be enough to cut Jem'Hadar and Cardassian ranks to pieces.



With Starfleet we had to remember that they are not a military per se. The Klingon and Romulan fleets are militaries. Romulan's making advances in military might is to be expected. While Klingons are routinely shown to be apemen with rockstar hair. Military ingenuity seems to have left them after TUC. Since the Klingons were the first to develop a ship that can fire while cloaked. The Federation has developed phasing cloaking technology but it was in violation of a treaty with the Rommies. However the tactical advantages of a phasing cloak can't be ignored in an all out war.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:36 PM   #29
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
But alas my friends. Recall that Romulus no longer exists. While the Romulan Star Empire has potentially hundreds of conquered worlds and potential colonies where Romulans might still exist. I doubt they will seriously involve themselves in conflict of that magnitude with their races being nearly extinct.
The Romulans have a vast interstellar government. Romulus' destruction wouldn't mean the end of their civilization anymore than Earth's demise would mean the end of the Federation. It would be a setback, but nothing more.

AllStarEntprise wrote:
If we decide to ignore JJTrek's meddling with the Prime timeline. We have to look at the dreadnought class Scimitar ships. With their extreme armaments, perfect cloak that can be activated while disruptors and torpedoes are fires, enhanced shields, and the planet encompassing thalaron weapon. If the Romulans were involved in another Dominion War the Federation would be hard pressed to prevent them from using that bio weapon. Hell a fleet of Scimitar class ships would be enough to cut Jem'Hadar and Cardassian ranks to pieces.
What are you talking about? The thalaron generator was a device used solely by Shinzon and his co-conspirators during Nemesis. Why would Romulans utilize a similar device knowing that it would jeopardize any alliance with the Federation?

AllStarEntprise wrote:
With Starfleet we had to remember that they are not a military per se. The Klingon and Romulan fleets are militaries. Romulan's making advances in military might is to be expected. While Klingons are routinely shown to be apemen with rockstar hair.
Webster's Dictionary defines military as "of or relating to soldiers or supported by armed force." Starfleet absolutely is a military organization, in spite of what Gene Roddenberry wanted everyone to believe. I don't know what to make of your comment about the Klingons other than that it seems highly inappropriate.

AllStarEntprise wrote:
Military ingenuity seems to have left them after TUC. Since the Klingons were the first to develop a ship that can fire while cloaked. The Federation has developed phasing cloaking technology but it was in violation of a treaty with the Rommies. However the tactical advantages of a phasing cloak can't be ignored in an all out war.
The Klingon vessel seen in TUC was an illegal prototype developed by rogue elements within the Klingon government. Why would Martok risk the ire of the Federation by employing such a device a second time? The phasing cloak was also developed illegally and would not be permitted in any armed conflict with the Dominion. Why are you suggesting that the Federation and its allies rely on technology that their own rules and regulations explicitly prohibit? Did I not tell you just yesterday that the ends don't justify the means?

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Old June 18 2013, 02:45 PM   #30
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Re: Federation vs The Dominiom: The Rematch.

The Cardassian union + Breen + whatever they brought over earlier.
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