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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 28 11.16%
A 53 21.12%
A- 46 18.33%
B+ 25 9.96%
B 27 10.76%
B- 11 4.38%
C+ 13 5.18%
C 12 4.78%
C- 9 3.59%
D+ 8 3.19%
D 10 3.98%
D- 5 1.99%
F 4 1.59%
Voters: 251. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 17 2013, 11:31 PM   #346
davejames
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I do have to say, the explanation given for how Zod escaped the Phantom Zone was a bit weak. So the planet explodes and somehow that results in the relay station thingy blowing up as well?

Um, okaaay.

And with all the advanced technology we saw (both here and in the prequel comic), it does seem a bit strange that the people of Krypton wouldn't have been able to escape the planet long before it exploded (of course that kind of applies to the original comic as well).
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Old June 17 2013, 11:39 PM   #347
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
I do have to say, the explanation given for how Zod escaped the Phantom Zone was a bit weak. So the planet explodes and somehow that results in the relay station thingy blowing up as well?
I figured maybe the station was powered or controlled by something on Krypton, and when Krypton blew up, it busted the jail wide open. Or something.

And with all the advanced technology we saw (both here and in the prequel comic), it does seem a bit strange that the people of Krypton wouldn't have been able to escape the planet long before it exploded (of course that kind of applies to the original comic as well).
They had already depleted a lot of their resources, so it's possible they simply didn't have the means to evacuate a whole planets' worth of people. Or maybe they didn't have anywhere to evacuate to. You can get a bunch of people on a spaceship, but where do you go from there?
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Old June 18 2013, 12:12 AM   #348
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

My grade: B+

I thought some of the fight scenes lasted a little too long and there were issues with the story but all in all I saw it with my oldest daughter and my son and we all enjoyed it.

Some issues that I did have concerning the story though:

1) I explained away Superman's victory against combat trained and veteran soldiers by way of the idea that he was simply more powerful. All the years he lived on earth had given him an advantage over fellow Kryptonians who recently arrived. One problem I had was with the Kryptonian atmosphere making him so weak so quickly. I surmise that Kryptonians aboard their spaceship are as weak as humans on earth (or Kryptonians on Krypton). So I guess aboard their spaceship they are weak even if they do open a window or two to suck in the Sun's radiation.

Also, since I assume that in their armor they are also breathing in Kryptonian atmosphere in their suits does that mean they lose the benefit of whatever radiation manages to penetrate their armor??? Apparently Kryptonian atmosphere is deadly to humans (ie Lois Lane) but the opposite isn't true (the human atmosphere didn't kill the Kryptonians, only disoriented them with super powers . . . nice!)

2) While I enjoyed Russell Crowe's badass Jor-El I couldn't help but wonder how a scientist (chief scientist granted) could so easily dispatch trained military (bred for combat) in both hand to hand and with firearms. Not only that but he also happens to have a battle armor suit in his house with which to don when fighting Zod & company (apparently its more for show than offering puncture wound protection from sharp pointy objects though). Apparently Kryptonian scientists are much more badass than their counterpart earth scientists.

3) The Kryptonian's seemed just about ready to pack it in and die as a race. They didn't really dispute that their planet was going to explode but rather offered the "We had to drill the planet's core! We were running out of resources, what did you want us to do?" response. And despite the fact that Jor-El had stolen the Codex and he and his wife launched it with their child Kal-El off planet . . . she seemed welcome at Zod's trial. Did the council realize that if the planet wasn't going to explode that their method of repopulation had just been stolen? They really didn't seem to care either way.

4) Talk about destruction. I thought Vengeance crashing into San Francisco and killing thousands of innocent people (and star fleet personnel and resources) was trivialized but metropolis???? HOLY SH*T!!! Likely tens if not hundreds of thousands were killed in the final battle (including several square miles of a major urban city and whatever was around that part of the Indian Ocean that was hammered to dust) and at the end its all . . . "Back to work people! Welcome to the Daily planet! If you look out he window you can see the collapsed buildings of dozens of major skyscrapers marking the final resting places of thousands of innocent citizens . . . would you like some coffee Clark?"

The staggering financial and resource losses are devastating as well as whatever long term environmental effects from all the terraforming that did get done will have major implications to both the US and the World. I hope Superman can fix climate change cause I have an inkling there might be some on the way.

5) Maybe because I am ex military I was more taken aback at the tremendous losses of our servicemen and women. Just about every plane that took the air against the aliens (to include helicopters) and its crew was lost. Anyone who shot at the Kryptonians is also likely dead. Is getting your chest cavity crushed as you are hurled back dozens of meters not supposed to be fatal? Its not like anyone that was unlucky enough to be swatted by Faura could have survived. I wonder why the Kryptonians even carry firearms when they don't seem to use them (ammo conservation perhaps?). I guess given the death of tens of thousands of civilians its hard to complain about several hundred military members although its clear enough that being asked to engage the aliens was essentially a suicide mission.

6) I liked Kevin Costner's portrayal of Pa Kent but thought the script did him a disservice. I felt that when Clark asks his father if he should let his friends and classmates just die that . . . "Well . . . maybe" is a piss poor response. Clark you are so important, much more important than those other children or any other humans around . . . don't you understand that? I mean for goodness sakes Jonathon, Clark already made the choice so try to be a little nurturing and understanding? I expected him to respond "No, of course not but you have to be careful to make sure no one sees you." Well . . . I guess I was wrong because I got the "Let the lil bastards die Clark. It's better to live with the guilt than possibly get caught and face a more difficult life. It's not like Clark was putting his own life in danger to save lives but rather that he might get caught.

That seemed completely against the ideals of Superman and what Jonathon Kent was supposedly trying to endow in his son. It just seemed very out of place.

7) This has been mentioned before but if the Kryptonian's landing at the Kent's farm didn't give away Clark's identity then they just need look for the house having the pickup truck removed from the second floor bedroom to get suspicious. Not to mention all the actual witnesses in the town who actually saw Clark fighting Zod's forces. That's the problem with fighting aliens in the town you grew up . . . the recognition effect.

8) Jor-El made Clark a suit in the downed Krypton ship? "Here son, I designed a cool new costume for you to wear in your new role complete with red cape because that's really hot with the ladies!!!" There wasn't much lead in to this (edited out perhaps) so it seemed kind of out of place. It could probably be explained away but just felt forced to me.
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Old June 18 2013, 01:57 AM   #349
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
I do have to say, the explanation given for how Zod escaped the Phantom Zone was a bit weak. So the planet explodes and somehow that results in the relay station thingy blowing up as well?

Um, okaaay.
You think that if Earth's core imploded and the outer layers exploded it wouldn't screw up our satellites and space station?

And with all the advanced technology we saw (both here and in the prequel comic), it does seem a bit strange that the people of Krypton wouldn't have been able to escape the planet long before it exploded (of course that kind of applies to the original comic as well).
That was the whole point, that for all their advanced technology, they were done in by their own shortsightedness. They tapped the core for energy, destabilizing it and eventually causing its implosion, against Jor-El's recommendation. They refused to heed Jor-El's warning that the planet's core would implode and that they should return to the stars, thus dooming their race to extinction. Even Jor-El's own wife, Lara, said "Jor-El was right" as the planet was blowing up in front of her, making it obvious that there was plenty of doubt about the veracity of his claims until it was too late to do anything about it. Zod was the only other significant player on Krypton who bought into Jor-El's theory completely, but he went about trying to save his people in the wrong way.

Captrek wrote: View Post
Given Jor-El's plan, it makes sense that he would want to summon any Kryptonian survivors once his son had paved the way for them to be accepted. He either failed to anticipate that Zod would escape the Phantom Zone, or failed to anticipate that Zod would reject his plan in favor of planetary genocide as a matter of convenience.
Jor-El didn't know that Zod was sentenced to the Phantom Zone, because that happened after Kal-El was launched into space and Zod killed Jor-El. Jor-El probably just figured Zod would be killed along with everyone else when the core imploded.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:07 AM   #350
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Was the name "Metropolis" used in the movie? Didn't notice.
It was on a card the first time you see the city - there were other location cards throughout the movie as well. I think it was in the lower left, so it was easy to miss, especially if you were watching in 3D or IMAX. It may have been said somewhere else, but I remember the card for sure.

TheMurph wrote: View Post
I love big dumb action in movies sometimes. Heck, for the last part of the Avengers I had a big stupid grin on my face as our heroes did battle. That is a long action sequence done right. However, it's been downhill from there for me. IM3, ST ID, big "epic" action sequences that left me wishing it would be over after 10 minutes. This is the problem with Man of Steel. I kept waiting for the big epic battle, the Avengers moment if you will. What I saw was one long punch fest, bouncing from one to the next. I was bored, and I was waiting for it to be over. Action for the sake of action doesn't do it for me in movies.
You know, I think this is a really good criticism of the action. Avengers did a great job of action that built, and where there were moments in the action that reinforced or forwarded character arcs. MoS's action sequences were a good deal more monotonous. When you start at 10, you don't have anywhere to go...

marillion wrote: View Post

Loved the take on the story and even the twist of Lois knowing early on, who he is... That way we can dispense with the back and forth and "romantic tension" between the two of them... Amy Adams was fantastic as the strong willed, kick you in the balls reporter.. But why, exactly was she on the transport plane at the end?? I realize that part was plot convenience theater, but really? I guess the justification being able to "get the story" was enough...
Actually, there was a justification for that one - AI Jor-El told her how to configure Kal-El's birth ship to recreate the Phantom Zone. That's why she and the scientist are working on the ship in the cargo hold. The plot contrivance is why Faora walks up to her at Kal-El's surrender and says "Zod wants this one too." I don't think it's ever explained why Zod would have the foggiest notion who Lois is, much less want her to come along. But she has to be there to have AI Jor-El tell her how to create the Phantom Zone.

KGator wrote: View Post

6) I liked Kevin Costner's portrayal of Pa Kent but thought the script did him a disservice. I felt that when Clark asks his father if he should let his friends and classmates just die that . . . "Well . . . maybe" is a piss poor response. Clark you are so important, much more important than those other children or any other humans around . . . don't you understand that? I mean for goodness sakes Jonathon, Clark already made the choice so try to be a little nurturing and understanding? I expected him to respond "No, of course not but you have to be careful to make sure no one sees you." Well . . . I guess I was wrong because I got the "Let the lil bastards die Clark. It's better to live with the guilt than possibly get caught and face a more difficult life. It's not like Clark was putting his own life in danger to save lives but rather that he might get caught.
I don't think it was quite as simple as "you might get caught". If you're secretly raising an alien child as your adopted son "you might get caught" means: knowledge of your existence might cause a world wide panic, and get you picked up by the military and dissected.

Jonathon seemed largely concerned with how radically knowledge of Clark's existence might change the world and he was plainly worried that the reaction would be one of fear and panic, especially given Clark's god-like powers. That's big enough stakes to at least give a passing thought to letting a busload of kids die.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:12 AM   #351
Mr Light
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

I liked the John Byrne era explanation, that their physiology was altered so that they would grow sick and die if they ever left Krypton because of their extremist isolationism, and Clark was born without that alteration.

"Actually, there was a justification for that one - AI Jor-El told her how to configure Kal-El's birth ship to recreate the Phantom Zone. That's why she and the scientist are working on the ship in the cargo hold. The plot contrivance is why Faora walks up to her at Kal-El's surrender and says "Zod wants this one too." I don't think it's ever explained why Zod would have the foggiest notion who Lois is, much less want her to come along. But she has to be there to have AI Jor-El tell her how to create the Phantom Zone."

If I recall the movie correctly, the Kryptonians observed her with Clark beforehand. So they took her as a hostage, to threaten violence to in order to force his cooperation.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:15 AM   #352
Lapis Exilis
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Something fans might want to keep out an eye for is a satellite that General Zod destroys. What is so special about that satellite? Well, it has the Wayne Enterprises logo on it, meaning that Bruce Wayne lives in the world of "Man of Steel."
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Oops - forgot a point.

I think it is screamingly obvious that MoS's emphasis on the alien-ness of Superman is all part of the grand plan for a team movie. The Justice League generally involves a few aliens (Supes, Martian Manhunter, the Hawks, Green Lantern - not an alien but informed by alien technology, etc) and often needs alien foes to present a big enough threat to make it worth bringing everyone together.

In general I don't care one way or the other about a JLA movie (except that it might be my one and only chance to see Wonder Woman on the big screen), but if they do it, then this is excellent set up as it creates a big enough scope to make it worthwhile, much as Thor set up a big enough universe to make the Avengers worthwhile.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:21 AM   #353
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Just saw this this morning and I loved it. I really enjoyed the story, thought the action was spectacular, and loved this version of Krypton.
My rating: A
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Old June 18 2013, 02:22 AM   #354
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Jonathan's reaction was probably more of an impassioned response than a cold-hearted one. I don't think he thought "hey those kids should have died". I think he was just reacting right there in the moment to Clark being seen.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:30 AM   #355
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
In general I don't care one way or the other about a JLA movie (except that it might be my one and only chance to see Wonder Woman on the big screen), but if they do it, then this is excellent set up as it creates a big enough scope to make it worthwhile, much as Thor set up a big enough universe to make the Avengers worthwhile.
Right now, I don't care about a JLA movie either. I might change my mind if something in development starts to sound good, but right now, I'd rather they just focus on making the best Superman series they can make. Plus, I'm not keen on the idea of a Batman reboot just yet.
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Old June 18 2013, 02:37 AM   #356
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

KGator wrote: View Post
4) Talk about destruction. I thought Vengeance crashing into San Francisco and killing thousands of innocent people (and star fleet personnel and resources) was trivialized but metropolis???? HOLY SH*T!!! Likely tens if not hundreds of thousands were killed in the final battle (including several square miles of a major urban city and whatever was around that part of the Indian Ocean that was hammered to dust) and at the end its all . . . "Back to work people! Welcome to the Daily planet! If you look out he window you can see the collapsed buildings of dozens of major skyscrapers marking the final resting places of thousands of innocent citizens . . . would you like some coffee Clark?"
Yeah, they probably should have done a better job of addressing that I think. Even a simple line saying that most of the area had already been evacuated would have been fine (although that obviously would have required a lot more time than the movie allowed).

Still though, I can't say it bothered me that much while watching. This is still very much a comic book movie, and in the end we're only watching CG buildings getting destroyed by CG energy beams. And I don't remember much agonizing over the loss of life at the end of Avengers either (even if it was at a smaller scale, surely there would have been hundreds if not thousands of people killed during that invasion-- and that sure wasn't acknowledged).
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Old June 18 2013, 03:06 AM   #357
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
And I don't remember much agonizing over the loss of life at the end of Avengers either (even if it was at a smaller scale, surely there would have been hundreds if not thousands of people killed during that invasion-- and that sure wasn't acknowledged).
There was a line from a Senator being interviewed at the end talking about the destruction and asking, 'Where are the Avengers? This was their fight!"
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Old June 18 2013, 03:13 AM   #358
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
There was a line from a Senator being interviewed at the end talking about the destruction and asking, 'Where are the Avengers? This was their fight!"
Yeah, and that was mixed in with some pretty goofy, lighthearted interviews as well ("I love you Thor!!" "Superheroes in New York?"). So again, it wasn't really taking the situation that seriously. You would have thought only a handful of people died or something.
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Old June 18 2013, 03:35 AM   #359
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

It's still a flaw for both films (and TF3, too). The cavalier dismissal of that level of destruction is problematic (though, not necessarily critical - I enjoyed MoS, Avengers and even TF3). Even if it's a common occurrence in contemporary "comic book" films, I still don't think ignoring mass death and destruction is a good thing for the films. They don't have to belabor the point. But an explicit acknowledgement of the cost of victory would be a welcome addition.
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Old June 18 2013, 04:05 AM   #360
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Re: MAN OF STEEL - Grading & Discussion

Of course a whole lot of people are going to be killed when an alien spaceship lands in their city and then a bunch of superhumans start fighting over it. I'd expect that the death toll at the climax of this movie is in the thousands.

Given the actual dynamics of buildings collapsing like that I can't imagine what the farmboy from Kansas could have done to rescue more than a few of those folks. He's neither shown to be fast enough nor experienced enough to accomplish that much.

You know, it's becoming clear a little over a decade later that the lasting impact 9/11 has had on popular entertainment is simply to raise the stakes for fictitious disasters. Before then, the collapse of a skyscraper like that was a catastrophe beyond the experience of Americans and the prevention of it could easily have been the climax of a movie. Now people making movies have to take out at least a couple of big buildings just to demonstrate that the bad guys are really dangerous.
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