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Old June 15 2013, 08:22 PM   #586
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

"Welcome to Level Seven," is pretty clearly a declaration that it's the same continuity, as if one was needed at all.
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Old June 15 2013, 09:05 PM   #587
Duncan MacLeod
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Fury said Coulson died believing in heroes. He never said he stayed dead.

My best friend died 25 years ago. Twice. I was talking to him this week. He died on the operating table after a car accident. They brought him back. It didn't take and he died again. They brought him back again. This time it took.

Modern medicine can work miracles. Not always, but often enough.

Coulson dies, the med-techs arrive and get him to Emergency. The docs hook him up to a heart machine to keep him going while they repair the damage to his own heart. He's probably in ICU for months, then rehab for even longer. But in the end Phil Coulson walks out of the hospital under his own steam.

My guess is that in the pilot episode he's just now returning to duty.

Is this really so difficult a concept to grasp?
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Old June 15 2013, 10:27 PM   #588
Set Harth
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

I'm thinking they should go with time travel.
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Old June 15 2013, 10:52 PM   #589
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Just watched the trailer with the other half and we both agree, it doesn't look brilliant and meh!
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Old June 15 2013, 10:58 PM   #590
JarodRussell
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Duncan MacLeod wrote: View Post
My best friend died 25 years ago. Twice. I was talking to him this week. He died on the operating table after a car accident. They brought him back. It didn't take and he died again. They brought him back again. This time it took.
Then he was never dead at any point to begin with.
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Old June 15 2013, 11:03 PM   #591
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

If the spear had gone through his heart or spine, he would have died instantly. As it obviously didn't, I can see how he could have been saved through modern conventional medicine. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Joss went with something a little more "out there" to explain it.
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Old June 15 2013, 11:04 PM   #592
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
As it obviously didn't, I can see how he could have been saved through modern conventional medicine.
What is "modern conventional medicine" in a universe where flying, cloaked aircraft carriers exist?
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Old June 15 2013, 11:23 PM   #593
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
If the spear had gone through his heart or spine, he would have died instantly. As it obviously didn't, I can see how he could have been saved through modern conventional medicine.
Absolutely right. The problem is that fiction simplifies the process of death, both for story convenience and to sanitize it somewhat, and thus people whose only experience with violent death is what they see in the media tend to have a lot of misconceptions about it. In fiction, people -- at least bad guys and extras -- tend to drop dead instantly after being shot or stabbed, but in reality, it's often a lot more gradual depending on where the injury occurs. People have survived being shot by hundreds of bullets or stabbed dozens of times. Some have even survived being impaled through the brain, though not without personality changes.

There's also the fact that medicine has improved, and thus has pushed back the limits of what constitutes irreversible death. Coulson was in the hands of the medical team moments after he appeared to die, and people in real life have been brought back from worse. And we only have Fury's word over the radio that the medics had "called it," i.e. declared him dead. And we know Fury lies.


That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Joss went with something a little more "out there" to explain it.
That has been implied in interviews, yes -- that the mystery of Coulson's revival is something that will be developed gradually over the season. So while it could be something as simple as the doctors getting to him in time and being very good at their jobs, it probably won't be.
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Old June 16 2013, 03:26 AM   #594
Nerys Myk
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Oh, there is no doubt he survived, in spite of what we saw happen in the movie.
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Old June 16 2013, 04:58 AM   #595
Duncan MacLeod
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Duncan MacLeod wrote: View Post
My best friend died 25 years ago. Twice. I was talking to him this week. He died on the operating table after a car accident. They brought him back. It didn't take and he died again. They brought him back again. This time it took.
Then he was never dead at any point to begin with.
My apologies. I'm sure you know better than the guy who experienced it. And his doctors.
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Old June 16 2013, 11:01 AM   #596
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

I think JarodRussell is laboring under the notion that there is only one degree of "dead". There's dead as in the heart has stopped and ain't about to start again without intervention and then there's brain death...and I think brain stem death too. Legal and medical definitions have shifted over the years as medical science pushed back the point of no return.

But yeah, regardless this is a comic book show. Bringing a person back from thoracic trauma and a spymaster garnishing the truth of his prognosis is a lot more plausible than a some magical serum that doubles a person's bodymass, makes them bullet proof and allows a human body to survive more than half a century in a glacier.
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Old June 16 2013, 12:19 PM   #597
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

Reverend wrote: View Post
I think JarodRussell is laboring under the notion that there is only one degree of "dead". There's dead as in the heart has stopped and ain't about to start again without intervention and then there's brain death...and I think brain stem death too. Legal and medical definitions have shifted over the years as medical science pushed back the point of no return.
Exactly. If you can be revived, you never were actually dead.
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Old June 16 2013, 01:52 PM   #598
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
If you can be revived, you never were actually dead.
If they weren't dead, why did they need to be revived?
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Old June 16 2013, 02:31 PM   #599
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

You're only dead when a doctor declares you dead. As long as they try to revive you, they don't view you as dead, obviously.
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Old June 16 2013, 02:45 PM   #600
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Re: Joss Whedon's S.H.I.E.L.D to ABC!

See, this is just my point. Death is a more gradual and complicated process than we tend to think, so there's no consensus, even medically or scientifically, on what differentiates being dead from being nearly dead.

However, there is such a thing as being "clinically dead." Clinical death is the cessation of heartbeat and respiration. This used to be considered just plain death, but now it's often reversible with resuscitation techniques, and there have been cases of spontaneous revival. So these days there are at least two medically recognized categories of "dead" -- clinical and permanent. Essentially clinical death is the first stage of the process of death. Death isn't a single instantaneous event the way we used to believe, but a transition that begins with clinical death and progresses to permanent death, unless it can be interrupted and reversed.

So Duncan's best friend would indeed have been clinically dead. That's an accepted medical term for his condition at the time. He just wasn't irreversibly dead yet.
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