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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 15 2013, 06:30 PM   #31
Christopher
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

SonicRanger wrote: View Post
Except Chekov is the one we know is a different age, about 4 years older in nuTrek... but since his birth is after the timeline change, that's allowed. But that means nuTrek Chekov is not actually oldTrek Chekov. A different kid with the same name born to the same parents but at a different time.
Either that, or he was lying about his age in "Who Mourns for Adonais" for some reason. Or he was using some other planet's years rather than Earth years.

Although I'm inclined to agree with the "cross-temporal older brother" theory, because Chekov Prime never seemed to be anywhere near as much of a genius as his counterpart.
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Old June 15 2013, 06:47 PM   #32
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Slightly off-topic, I'm curious how X-Men: First Class will handle Ian McKellon and Matthew Fassbender in the same movie as Magneto, when they look and sound absolutely nothing alike.
It'll all be explained by Magneto's machine. It explains Tyler Mane and Liev Schrieber. It can explain everything!
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Old June 15 2013, 06:55 PM   #33
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Christopher wrote: View Post
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And I also agree about Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy, which was one of my problems with that film. It's like they got an actor who was about the same height and build as Patrick, then shaved his head and figured: Hey, they're practically twins! Forget the fact that the two men's faces were completely different and their voices sounded completely different too.
As I said, they did put a prosthetic nose and chin on Hardy to increase his resemblance to Stewart. So they weren't as careless about it as you imply. They did the best they could with the face they had.

But, again, would you have been happier if they'd cast someone who looked just like the young Stewart but couldn't act worth a damn? What's more important, appearance or performance?
Regarding the prosthetics on Hardy, fair point. They did try. It just didn't work for me.

On your second point, I never would have written the clone story in the first place, unless I could get Stewart to play a double role, which wouldn't have worked there.

I agree that acting ability is most important, but for me, when you're talking about two characters who are supposed to be closely related or worse, literally the same person, the appearance of the actors matters a great deal.

The Nemesis screenplay is riddled with so many problems it's hard to know where to begin, but I don't believe the clone story was necessary or even added that much to the story beyond the cliche "I'm you're evil mirror" trope. Shinzon could have been Picard's son and it would have had just as much dramatic effect, if not more.
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Old June 15 2013, 07:02 PM   #34
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I have Hazel eyes. Yet people often think they're blue or brown. It's all a trick of the light.
Well, any color is going to be affected by how the light is hitting it. But using that as a rationalization for how Pine's bright blue eyes could be confused with Shatner's dark hazel eyes is just...pushing it. At least for me.

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.
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Old June 15 2013, 07:11 PM   #35
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Christopher wrote: View Post
Although I'm inclined to agree with the "cross-temporal older brother" theory, because Chekov Prime never seemed to be anywhere near as much of a genius as his counterpart.
I just see it as the screenwriters returning to the original character concept of Chekov being smart enough that he was a protégé of Spock.
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Old June 15 2013, 07:21 PM   #36
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Just as I never ever believed that Sybok was Spock's brother let alone a son of Sarek.
Technically, he was his half-brother.

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Old June 15 2013, 07:24 PM   #37
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Christopher wrote: View Post
Although I'm inclined to agree with the "cross-temporal older brother" theory, because Chekov Prime never seemed to be anywhere near as much of a genius as his counterpart.
I've always thought Chekov was "book smart" but didn't have much in the way of common sense. Taking that into consideration, it's not hard to see how he managed get himself into so many trouble spots.

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Old June 15 2013, 07:30 PM   #38
Nerys Myk
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Yeoman Basha wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I have Hazel eyes. Yet people often think they're blue or brown. It's all a trick of the light.
Well, any color is going to be affected by how the light is hitting it. But using that as a rationalization for how Pine's bright blue eyes could be confused with Shatner's dark hazel eyes is just...pushing it. At least for me.

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.
My real rationalization is it's just a movie and it shouldn't matter. Just as the discrepancy between Quinto and Nimoy's earlobs, Saldana and Nichol's builds or Pegg and Doohan's hair lines should't matter.

You might want to avoid watching the James Bond series. They've had six different actors playing him over the course of the series and none of them look alike! Also Roots, LeVar Burton and John Amos, who play Kunte Kinte at various ages, look nothing alike. Ever notice that Kirstie Alley has green eyes and Robin Curtis has brown eyes?
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Old June 15 2013, 07:58 PM   #39
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Yeoman Basha wrote: View Post
If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.
You'd think the fact that you're watching it projected onto a flat screen, or that the characters have cameras pointing at them without being aware of it, or that there's music playing in the background without the characters noticing that either, or that a lot of them look and sound like actors you recognize from other roles, would be enough to announce that it's fake.

Just watching TV or movies at all, or watching a play, or reading a book, or experiencing fiction in any form, requires some suspension of disbelief. You always know that it's not real, but you choose to play along with the illusion. You exert your own imagination by choosing to ignore the evidence that it's illusory. Just like you did when you were a child and pretended your backyard was a jungle or an alien planet or whatever.
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Old June 15 2013, 08:53 PM   #40
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Christopher wrote: View Post
Yeoman Basha wrote: View Post
If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.
You'd think the fact that you're watching it projected onto a flat screen, or that the characters have cameras pointing at them without being aware of it, or that there's music playing in the background without the characters noticing that either, or that a lot of them look and sound like actors you recognize from other roles, would be enough to announce that it's fake.

Just watching TV or movies at all, or watching a play, or reading a book, or experiencing fiction in any form, requires some suspension of disbelief. You always know that it's not real, but you choose to play along with the illusion. You exert your own imagination by choosing to ignore the evidence that it's illusory. Just like you did when you were a child and pretended your backyard was a jungle or an alien planet or whatever.
...Or hearing a laugh track when you're watching a sitcom. Of course it's all fake, but most of us are still able to "tune out" a lot of this stuff and still lose ourselves in the story for an hour or two. And at least for me, the ability to do that, to suspend my disbelief for a little while is important.

Just because it's all fake doesn't mean that the filmmakers shouldn't make some effort to keep it "real". We all know that the Enterprise doesn't really fly through space, but that doesn't mean we want to see the wires holding up the model as it flies by. And when we're watching Klingons, we don't want to see the prosthetics coming off the actors' faces. There are limits to how "fake" a movie or TV show can get before it starts to lose the audience, a line that cannot be crossed without going into parody.

We all have different ideas about where that line is. For me, seeing two actors who obviously look (and sound) very different -- but I'm supposed to believe they are clones, or the same character at a different age -- crosses that line.
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Old June 15 2013, 08:56 PM   #41
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

I don't think you're cut out for viewing long term franchises.
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Old June 15 2013, 09:02 PM   #42
Yeoman Basha
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Yeoman Basha wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I have Hazel eyes. Yet people often think they're blue or brown. It's all a trick of the light.
Well, any color is going to be affected by how the light is hitting it. But using that as a rationalization for how Pine's bright blue eyes could be confused with Shatner's dark hazel eyes is just...pushing it. At least for me.

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.
My real rationalization is it's just a movie and it shouldn't matter. Just as the discrepancy between Quinto and Nimoy's earlobs, Saldana and Nichol's builds or Pegg and Doohan's hair lines should't matter.

You might want to avoid watching the James Bond series. They've had six different actors playing him over the course of the series and none of them look alike! Also Roots, LeVar Burton and John Amos, who play Kunte Kinte at various ages, look nothing alike. Ever notice that Kirstie Alley has green eyes and Robin Curtis has brown eyes?
My rationalization is that I can ignore the different physical appearance of recasts as long as the actors don't appear in scenes together. Kirstie's Saavik and Robin's Saavik never shared screentime. Ditto for the two Scotties and the two Uhuras, and all the James Bonds. Of course James Bond has been recast multiple times and looks different every time. So what? I couldn't care less about that unless they write a new movie where Sean Connery and Daniel Craig appear together onscreen as Bond and Bond Prime. You have to admit, that would just be silly.

I don't care that Pine looks different from Shatner. What I care about is, if they appear side by side in a scene together as Kirk and Kirk, they look so jarringly different that it will take my out of the movie.

I must say, I've never noticed about the earlobes on Old and New Spock. Next time I watch them in a scene together, I'll probably fixate on that.
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Old June 15 2013, 09:07 PM   #43
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Yeoman Basha wrote: View Post
We all have different ideas about where that line is. For me, seeing two actors who obviously look (and sound) very different -- but I'm supposed to believe they are clones, or the same character at a different age -- crosses that line.
But, again, what's the alternative? There's only so much you can do to alter an actor's appearance, and it should be a given that you choose the best performer for a role regardless of what they look like. Sure, it's nice when the resemblance is convincing, but there's no way to guarantee that.

Heck, I never found Jeremy Kemp convincing as Picard's brother. He just didn't look like he could be related to Patrick Stewart. In an ideal world, I would've liked to see Sean Connery in the role. But I know there was no way they could've possibly afforded him. They made the best casting choice they could, and though it was difficult for me to suspend disbelief, I understand the realities of the situation and I don't condemn the episode for failing to achieve the impossible. Yes, I find Hardy's lack of resemblance to Stewart distracting, but I accept that getting the right performance and the best chemistry between the actors was a higher priority, and rightly so, than just what the actor looked like or sounded like. There's a reason it's called willing suspension of disbelief. Sometimes, even when it's hard to believe, you just have to choose to play along for the sake of the story.
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Old June 15 2013, 09:14 PM   #44
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

^Precisely correct.

As a fan of the James Bond franchise, I've actually enjoyed watching different actors play the same character. Each has his own take on how the character should be played. Although some play the role better than others, each adds something to the overall makeup of the character.

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Old June 15 2013, 11:40 PM   #45
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Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Christopher wrote: View Post
Heck, I never found Jeremy Kemp convincing as Picard's brother. He just didn't look like he could be related to Patrick Stewart. In an ideal world, I would've liked to see Sean Connery in the role. .
Nah, F. Murray Abraham or Ben Kingsley.
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