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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 15 2013, 11:15 AM   #226
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

That's why films like The Hunger Games are nice. There were a number of scenes in that movie that had 2 named women talking about something other than men, and it came off as natural as you please. You wanna know who recommended that I read the books? A man at my office that is not into girly stuff at all. I don't even know how he got into reading those books, but I thought it was interesting that he was the one that made the recommendation. I decided to see the film first, and after that, those books were mine.

The books were written by a woman with a background in writing for television. I don't think we need "unabashed "chick flick" ensembles" as much as we just need good writing that deals with all of the characters well, which should include some women, minorites, and minority women. In today's day and age, it just makes sense.

@pauln6, thanks for the link. I'll be back after viewing it.
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Old June 15 2013, 11:18 AM   #227
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
wasn't there an alien female security guard at one of the consoles in the brig in STID?
Yep! Heather Langenkamp as Moto.
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Old June 15 2013, 11:26 AM   #228
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

BillJ wrote: View Post
And if they flip the coin and it comes out with 55 men and 15 women you'll be crying foul as well.
Bored, I just flipped a coin 7000 times.

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Old June 15 2013, 12:25 PM   #229
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
wasn't there an alien female security guard at one of the consoles in the brig in STID?
Yep! Heather Langenkamp as Moto.
Go Heather! Unsurprisingly, I didn't recognise her.
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Old June 15 2013, 12:28 PM   #230
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
And if they flip the coin and it comes out with 55 men and 15 women you'll be crying foul as well.
Bored, I just flipped a coin 7000 times.

Lol, I'm pretty sure they have an app for that. I can live with an inconsistent gender bias. It's the consistent gender bias that is frustrating.
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Old June 15 2013, 12:45 PM   #231
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
And if they flip the coin and it comes out with 55 men and 15 women you'll be crying foul as well.
Bored, I just flipped a coin 7000 times.

Lol, I'm pretty sure they have an app for that. I can live with an inconsistent gender bias. It's the consistent gender bias that is frustrating.
Frustrating because most women don't see it your way?

Your heart is in the right place, but you certainly are overdoing the protesting on behalf of women.
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Old June 15 2013, 12:46 PM   #232
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

beamMe wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Bored, I just flipped a coin 7000 times.

Lol, I'm pretty sure they have an app for that. I can live with an inconsistent gender bias. It's the consistent gender bias that is frustrating.
Frustrating because most women don't see it your way?

Your heart is in the right place, but you certainly are overdoing the protesting on behalf of women.
I'm doing it on behalf of equality. I'd argue the other way if there was a consistent bias in favour of women.
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Old June 15 2013, 01:05 PM   #233
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

BillJ wrote: View Post
Me: "Do you care that there are less women in movies than men?"

My Wife: "Not really."
Why are you telling us this?
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Old June 15 2013, 01:10 PM   #234
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

teacake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Me: "Do you care that there are less women in movies than men?"

My Wife: "Not really."
Why are you telling us this?
Because I asked for her input, although as I said before, the way the question is phrased can affect the nature of the answer.

As a businesswoman, I admit that I was expecting her to say that actresses should obtain work on their own merits, not be handed roles.

However, what I've found is that when you pose the question in a way that explains that actresses are unable to audition for jobs on merit because those jobs don't exist, I've yet to meet a woman who thought that situation was fair or equal.

There is always a first time though!
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Old June 15 2013, 01:24 PM   #235
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Me: "Do you care that there are less women in movies than men?"

My Wife: "Not really."
Why are you telling us this?
Because I asked for her input, although as I said before, the way the question is phrased can affect the nature of the answer.

As a businesswoman, I admit that I was expecting her to say that actresses should obtain work on their own merits, not be handed roles.

However, what I've found is that when you pose the question in a way that explains that actresses are unable to audition for jobs on merit because those jobs don't exist, I've yet to meet a woman who thought that situation was fair or equal.

There is always a first time though!
Are you suggesting that writer should create their characters with some quota in mind?
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Old June 15 2013, 02:07 PM   #236
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

beamMe wrote: View Post
Are you suggesting that writer should create their characters with some quota in mind?
I don't really understand why people view balancing the gender of characters on screen as enforcing a quota and why whenever anybody says this they say it because they view quotas as bad - every time - lol! It's half and half. Why is there so much gnashing of teeth and beating of breast about such a simple concept. Equality means equal - roughly equal numbers in equally varied positions. It'a a laudable goal, it isn't happening, so let's think of simple ways to make it happen.

As I said before, you can flip a coin or just alternate the gender of the supporting characters as they crop up in the script. In some ways coin flipping or dice rolling is better as it creates more variation on screen at any one time. If Ensign Doohicky isn't going to spend the next scene in bed with Scotty, determine their gender randomly. Why not? I don't think STiD would have been so different if Admiral Marcus had been Carol's mum based on a die roll.

And as I say, this isn't a general thing, this is about Star Trek.
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Old June 15 2013, 02:39 PM   #237
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I don't think STiD would have been so different if Admiral Marcus had been Carol's mum based on a die roll.
Perhaps not. But that's not how the writer created the character.

And I can imagine there would have been such an outrage if it had been Alexandra Marcus', and not Alexander Marcus' head that was crushed by Khan.
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Old June 15 2013, 02:47 PM   #238
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

beamMe wrote: View Post
And I can imagine there would have been such an outrage if it had been Alexandra Marcus', and not Alexander Marcus' head that was crushed by Khan.
I don't know the answer to this. But I can't imagine it wouldn't have raised a few eye-brows here in the States.
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Old June 15 2013, 02:59 PM   #239
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

BillJ wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
And I can imagine there would have been such an outrage if it had been Alexandra Marcus', and not Alexander Marcus' head that was crushed by Khan.
I don't know the answer to this. But I can't imagine it wouldn't have raised a few eye-brows here in the States.
I think the level of violence against men in US films is too high. I think you should ask why you would find crushing a man's head acceptable rather than why crushing a woman's head would be unacceptable.
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Old June 15 2013, 03:09 PM   #240
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness & The Bechdel Test

It's not about it being acceptable. But Khan is the bad guy and does bad things, including crushing people's heads until they pop like a grape that's been stepped on. It's how we know he's the bad guy.

But I think audiences would've been a bit more squeamish if if was a woman in that position. Especially when domestic violence is still a real issue and tough to crack.
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