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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 13 2013, 10:54 PM   #1
Bry_Sinclair
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Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

In TWOK when the Reliant is searching for a suitable site for Genesis, wouldn't their computer records show that the Ceti Alpha System was missing a planet when they first arrived (what kind of survey ship would skimp on sensors?), as well as it being the system that Kirk exiled Khan to (something Chekov should have known, since he was apparently onboard at the time)?
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Old June 13 2013, 10:58 PM   #2
sonak
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
In TWOK when the Reliant is searching for a suitable site for Genesis, wouldn't their computer records show that the Ceti Alpha System was missing a planet when they first arrived (what kind of survey ship would skimp on sensors?), as well as it being the system that Kirk exiled Khan to (something Chekov should have known, since he was apparently onboard at the time)?

yes, this has been brought up many times before. Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.
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Old June 13 2013, 10:59 PM   #3
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

sonak wrote: View Post
Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.
Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:00 PM   #4
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

^Not necessarily. Khan himself said that Kirk didn't bother checking up on the colony once the Enterprise left. It's possible that the sector was largely ignored by Starfleet until they needed it as a possible Genesis test site.

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Old June 13 2013, 11:01 PM   #5
sonak
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.
Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.

well, it actually IS hypocritical if the MAIN REASON for disliking it IS THE PLOT FLAWS!

It's not hypocritical if you dislike it for other things.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:02 PM   #6
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.


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Old June 13 2013, 11:02 PM   #7
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Yep. Wrath of Khan is packed with issues like that.

How did they ever think they were at Ceti Alpha VI if the fifth planet blew up leaving the system without six worlds??
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Old June 13 2013, 11:05 PM   #8
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

sonak wrote: View Post
well, it actually IS hypocritical if the MAIN REASON for disliking it IS THE PLOT FLAWS!
What? That's a gross oversimplification! It's entirely plausible to like a film in spite of its plot holes if the overall quality of the film is good enough. It's not hypocrisy: it's common sense.

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Old June 13 2013, 11:07 PM   #9
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
How did they ever think they were at Ceti Alpha VI if the fifth planet blew up leaving the system without six worlds??
Because the fifth planet didn't blow up. That would have killed Khan and his followers. The sixth planet blew up and shifted the orbit of the fifth, laying everything on it to waste. Kirk and the rest of Starfleet had no idea what happened because no one bothered to check up on the colony until Reliant visited the system.

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Old June 13 2013, 11:34 PM   #10
MacLeod
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Shazam! wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Plot flaws in TWOK are mostly ignored because people like it, whereas "Generation's" plot flaws are harped on because people dislike it.
Those damn hypocrites. How dare they like one and not the other when they both contain flaws.
If people are enjoying a film they tend to overlook plot holes to a certain degree. If they aren't enjoying a film plot holes seem to shout out at them.
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Old June 13 2013, 11:34 PM   #11
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Sran wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
How did they ever think they were at Ceti Alpha VI if the fifth planet blew up leaving the system without six worlds??
Because the fifth planet didn't blow up. That would have killed Khan and his followers. The sixth planet blew up and shifted the orbit of the fifth, laying everything on it to waste. Kirk and the rest of Starfleet had no idea what happened because no one bothered to check up on the colony until Reliant visited the system.

--Sran
Sorry, I got a little mixed up. But the point was - how did Reliant ever set course for Ceti Alpha VI when the system now only has five planets?
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Old June 13 2013, 11:39 PM   #12
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Sorry, I got a little mixed up. But the point was - how did Reliant ever set course for Ceti Alpha VI when the system now only has five planets?
It's a good question. Think of it the following way: when you drive to your house, do you recognize it as your house or as the fourth house on the left? The explosion that destroyed Ceti Alpha VI laid the fifth planet to waste and changed its orbit, making it look like the sixth planet in the process. Add to that the fact that the planets aren't arranged in a straight line (each has a unique orbit), and it's not hard to see why Reliant didn't realize they'd stopped at the fifth planet instead of the sixth.

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Old June 13 2013, 11:42 PM   #13
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

^To add to what I said above, we also have to consider the route Reliant took into the system. If we assume the fifth and sixth planets are farther from the system's sun than the first and second (like our solar system), Reliant wouldn't necessarily pass by every other planet before reaching its destination.

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Old June 13 2013, 11:42 PM   #14
marksound
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

If CA5 was at or near where CA6 should have been, why look any further?
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Old June 13 2013, 11:45 PM   #15
Sran
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Re: Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
If CA5 was at or near where CA6 should have been, why look any further?
Right, especially if Reliant took the most direct route to where they thought the sixth planet would be. Assuming they reached it without incident, there wouldn't have been a reason to look at the other planets in the system.

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