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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 13 2013, 02:07 AM   #61
Lance
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Re: QonoS and its moon

It could be argued that TUC saw Praxis "explode"... but that it had already been in a state of destruction for many, many years before it finally went nova. It isn't like anyone from the Federation was going near the Klingon homeworld before TUC so the extent of the damage on Praxis may not have been known to Starfleet until it actually "came down" in TUC.

In this alternative universe, they take a trip there and see the damage that the mining has had on it first hand.
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Old June 13 2013, 02:15 AM   #62
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Re: QonoS and its moon

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
In all honesty, I can't really make sense of any of the fights in the Abrams movies, it's just mindless shooting and explosions.
There have only really been three, and two of them defy that description considerably.

So I don't really know what the hell you're talking about.
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Old June 13 2013, 02:17 AM   #63
The Wormhole
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Re: QonoS and its moon

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
In all honesty, I can't really make sense of any of the fights in the Abrams movies, it's just mindless shooting and explosions.
There have only really been three, and two of them defy that description considerably.

So I don't really know what the hell you're talking about.
In my mind they all match that description perfectly. Which two do you feel otherwise about?
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Old June 13 2013, 02:38 AM   #64
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Re: QonoS and its moon

Lance wrote: View Post
It could be argued that TUC saw Praxis "explode"... but that it had already been in a state of destruction for many, many years before it finally went nova. It isn't like anyone from the Federation was going near the Klingon homeworld before TUC so the extent of the damage on Praxis may not have been known to Starfleet until it actually "came down" in TUC.
The ability of the Federation to observe from long range was clear, though. The Federation may not have known all that was going on, but right up until it exploded, pretty clearly long range scans indicated Praxis had a basically spherical shape. Otherwise, the computer overlay would have looked different.
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Old June 13 2013, 04:48 AM   #65
Crazy Eddie
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Re: QonoS and its moon

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
In all honesty, I can't really make sense of any of the fights in the Abrams movies, it's just mindless shooting and explosions.
There have only really been three, and two of them defy that description considerably.

So I don't really know what the hell you're talking about.
In my mind they all match that description perfectly. Which two do you feel otherwise about?
Actually, three.

- The Narada's first attack on the Enterprise (only one torpedo, and it was a direct hit)
- The entire sequence with the Narada, the Jellyfish and the Enterprise.
- The USS Vengeance attacking Enterprise at warp.

Those were all pretty clear, no more or less confusing visually than an old-style WW-II dogfight.
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Old June 13 2013, 02:41 PM   #66
The Wormhole
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Re: QonoS and its moon

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
There have only really been three, and two of them defy that description considerably.

So I don't really know what the hell you're talking about.
In my mind they all match that description perfectly. Which two do you feel otherwise about?
Actually, three.

- The Narada's first attack on the Enterprise (only one torpedo, and it was a direct hit)
- The entire sequence with the Narada, the Jellyfish and the Enterprise.
- The USS Vengeance attacking Enterprise at warp.

Those were all pretty clear, no more or less confusing visually than an old-style WW-II dogfight.
They still had lens flares.
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Old June 13 2013, 08:39 PM   #67
Charles Phipps
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Re: QonoS and its moon

In my head-canon, one of the missions John Harrison had for Admiral Marcus was figuring out a way to cripple the Klingon Empire so a war between them and the Federation wouldn't destroy the latter. Blowing up Praxis was what Khan chose to do (also horrifying Marcus even as he knew NOW was the time to strike).

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Old June 13 2013, 09:11 PM   #68
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Re: QonoS and its moon

That's pretty good, Charles Phipps.
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Old June 13 2013, 09:15 PM   #69
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Re: QonoS and its moon

Thanks, it's also why Marcus seemed so confident about the whole thing. Like the USA attacking Iraq vs. Mutually Assured Destruction. It might even go a long way to explaining why Khan is on Kronos since he had a base set up there.
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Old June 13 2013, 09:38 PM   #70
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Re: QonoS and its moon

Charles Phipps wrote: View Post
Thanks, it's also why Marcus seemed so confident about the whole thing. Like the USA attacking Iraq vs. Mutually Assured Destruction. It might even go a long way to explaining why Khan is on Kronos since he had a base set up there.
If not a base, definitely a safe house. I don't suppose he just happened to find all those weapons lying around in the street somewhere.

Which leads me to something I've been thinking about since the first time I saw it. Khan and Marcus are obviously bullshitting Kirk with almost every word they say to him. They both consider him to be just a pawn in their respective schemes and they never really tell him what their intentions are or what their real plans are.

The question to me is, Why would Marcus give the Khanpedoes to the Enterprise to shoot them at Khan in the first place? Why not remove those lunatics from the tubes first and then dump them out with the trash, or move them some place -- like the Vengeance -- where Khan couldn't find them? Why send Enterprise to kill Khan when he could have loaded those torpedoes and sent Vengeance to do it anyway?

The answer is that Marcus never intended to KILL Khan. The bombing of the archives and the drive-by on Starfleet headquarters was all part of the plan (which is why Marcus -- ostensibly Khan's primary target -- got away without a scratch). Gunning down anyone in Starfleet who might question Marcus' agenda clears the way for him and creates crisis environment that lets him order Enterprise into Klingon space without anyone -- least of all Kirk -- questioning him. Enterprise firing those torpedoes would have started a war with the Klingons and they would have been blown to bits; the torpedoes, however, would have soft landed, Khan would have hooked up with his people and revived them and immediately opened up the ground front in a war against the Klingons, just in time to coordinate with an orbital strike of Starfleet vessels lead by the aptly named "USS Vengeance" in response to the destruction of the Enterprise. In this scenario, Khan's deal with Marcus would have been for him and his people to help him beat the Klingons, and in exchange, Qo'nos would be theirs to rule when the war was over.

The plan flew entirely off the rails when Kirk decided not to shoot off those torpedoes and went after Khan himself. Khan, realizing Kirk was a man of conscience and therefore (in his mind) weak, and also realizing that Marcus had screwed up and put ALL of the augments on the Enterprise instead of holding a few back as insurance, had an "Aha!" moment and figured he could manipulate Kirk into either giving him command of his ship or helping him eventually commandeer the Vengeance.

Fridge logic here, but it's just a thought.
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Old June 14 2013, 12:20 AM   #71
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Re: QonoS and its moon

I agree with you we may never know what the hell anyone was planning since I suspect everyone's plans changed like 3 or 4 times.
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Old June 14 2013, 02:30 AM   #72
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Re: QonoS and its moon

I am running on memory here.
Fact: One of those advanced torpedoes was in the basement of KMA when the bomb exploded.
Observation This torpedo might have contained one of his people, yet Khan somehow knew this wasn't the case and somehow knew the torpedoes had been moved.
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