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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 141 19.13%
A 159 21.57%
A- 99 13.43%
B+ 82 11.13%
B 58 7.87%
B- 27 3.66%
C+ 40 5.43%
C 38 5.16%
C- 24 3.26%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.36%
F 35 4.75%
Voters: 737. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 12 2013, 08:25 AM   #4171
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

mos6507 wrote: View Post
I don't expect people to universally hate the movie, but to at least acknowledge that it has flaws.
All the Star Trek movies have flaws. But ST:TMP and ST 2009 spoke to me like no other movies have (except maybe "Silent Running", "Barbarella", "The Hunt for Red October", "Master and Commander", "84 Charing Cross Road", "Somewhere in Time", "Galaxy Quest" and "The Fellowship of the Ring" coming close). Movies that make me forget that I'm watching a movie, and I pop out the other end totally blissed-out.

"Star Trek Into Darkness" felt like a seamless elongation of the 2009 movie. I couldn't say the same for ST II, which departed from so much from the elements that I'd loved about TMP. As much as other fans love ST II, I see mainly all the missed opportunities. I can see why fans disappointed in TMP love ST II instead, but I sometimes like to daydream of a series of films or telemovies every few months extending TMP (as "Phase II" had originally been planned to do).

I enjoyed ST III, ST IV and "First Contact" very much, but they just didn't immerse me the way I'd craved since TMP. ST V, "Generations" and "Nemesis" were just chockful of missteps. A fun night at the cinema, but for too many wrong reasons. ST VI and "Insurrection" were okay, but didn't fulfill me.

I could list nitpicks for all twelve films, but my favourite three get a free pass - 'cos they enthralled me!
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Old June 12 2013, 10:38 AM   #4172
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Why is it that some people seem to see all the flaws the way you do, and other people just lather on this unconditional praise "Loved it!!! Saw it for the 10th time and loved it even more!!!"?
How is that unconditional ?

For myself, I've become less critical of movies recently. I realised that I want to be entertained, and also realised the difficulties of making movies -- the impossibility, I would say, of making flawless ones.
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Old June 12 2013, 10:38 AM   #4173
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Because sometimes people want to have fun at the movies and Into Darkness is a fun movie.
And those who didn't have 'fun' and didn't find it to be a 'fun' movie are joyless douchebags and the movie is perfect and immune from criticism so ner?
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Old June 12 2013, 11:51 AM   #4174
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Because sometimes people want to have fun at the movies and Into Darkness is a fun movie.
And those who didn't have 'fun' and didn't find it to be a 'fun' movie are joyless douchebags and the movie is perfect and immune from criticism so ner?
This was also said:

BillJ wrote: View Post
And your not looking in the right threads because many people who like the film haven't been shy about its flaws.
I don't think one person has said its flawless and there's over 4000 posts about STID. Perhaps the most they've said is that they don't CARE about the flaws or other things they love and admire have flaws.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:56 AM   #4175
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Because sometimes people want to have fun at the movies and Into Darkness is a fun movie.
And those who didn't have 'fun' and didn't find it to be a 'fun' movie are joyless douchebags and the movie is perfect and immune from criticism so ner?
This was also said:

BillJ wrote: View Post
And your not looking in the right threads because many people who like the film haven't been shy about its flaws.
I don't think one person has said its flawless and there's over 4000 posts about STID. Perhaps the most they've said is that they don't CARE about the flaws or other things they love and admire have flaws.
Yes, but it seems to be okay to admit to not caring about the flaws of STID yet try to do the same for TWOK or FC and you're labelled a hypocrite.
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Old June 12 2013, 12:07 PM   #4176
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Yes, but it seems to be okay to admit to not caring about the flaws of STID yet try to do the same for TWOK or FC and you're labelled a hypocrite.
When I posted about liking both TMP and ST (2009) in 2009, I was often told it was impossible to like both films!
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Old June 12 2013, 12:21 PM   #4177
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Yes, but it seems to be okay to admit to not caring about the flaws of STID yet try to do the same for TWOK or FC and you're labelled a hypocrite.
For me, Spock yelling "Khaaan!!!!" or running down the street like a dork destroys my suspension of disbelief in a way that thinking "Gee, wasn't Checkov not on the Enterprise during Space Seed?" doesn't.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:06 PM   #4178
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I just don't care what the "flaws" in the movie are - and I care even less, if that's possible, why someone else doesn't like it.

Anyway, the criticisms that are annoying here are less along the lines of "the movies I like have flaws, I admit that, and so does this one," and more often "the movies I like had flaws but never mind that because this one shouldn't."
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Old June 12 2013, 02:44 PM   #4179
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post

And those who didn't have 'fun' and didn't find it to be a 'fun' movie are joyless douchebags and the movie is perfect and immune from criticism so ner?
This was also said:

BillJ wrote: View Post
And your not looking in the right threads because many people who like the film haven't been shy about its flaws.
I don't think one person has said its flawless and there's over 4000 posts about STID. Perhaps the most they've said is that they don't CARE about the flaws or other things they love and admire have flaws.
Yes, but it seems to be okay to admit to not caring about the flaws of STID yet try to do the same for TWOK or FC and you're labelled a hypocrite.


They all have flaws and would you care to point to a post where you were labelled a hypocrite?
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Old June 12 2013, 03:07 PM   #4180
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I'm not going to specifically name posters, but there is this as an exammple:

"But the issue with their argument is, is that the original show and movies on which this reboot was based have THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS. And for some reason, you can ignore those issues, but when it comes the the reboots, because you don't like how they were done, they are now "legitimate criticizes"'

As though any nu-Trek criticism is in need of a disclaimer providing a detailed justification of why you are accepting of flaws in previous Trek adventures but not this one, because it's obviously a simple black-and-white thought process...
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Old June 12 2013, 04:09 PM   #4181
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

mos6507 wrote: View Post
running down the street like a dork
Did not Chekov run along a navy vessel like a dork in ST IV, complete with Russian-themed chase music?
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Old June 12 2013, 04:24 PM   #4182
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I rest my case.
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Old June 12 2013, 04:26 PM   #4183
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
I rest my case.
But why do people condemn one version of Trek for doing something that another version they liked did?

It does come off as hypocritical.
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Old June 12 2013, 04:29 PM   #4184
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I took my best friend to see STID on Monday. It was his first time and my third.

We are the same age (39) and he's a diehard Trekker like I am.

He was in awe the whole time - laughing at all the little in jokes (like the scene with Chekov and "put on a red shirt") and gripping his seat handles during the action. He is thoroughly a fan of Cumberbatch's portrayal and felt that Cumberbatch as Khan was genuinely terrifying and inhuman, like someone conceived in a Petri dish should be, and he also expressed that the Kirk death scene for him had *more* emotional resonance than the original scene in TWOK.
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Old June 12 2013, 04:38 PM   #4185
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
I'm not going to specifically name posters, but there is this as an exammple:

"But the issue with their argument is, is that the original show and movies on which this reboot was based have THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS. And for some reason, you can ignore those issues, but when it comes the the reboots, because you don't like how they were done, they are now "legitimate criticizes"'

As though any nu-Trek criticism is in need of a disclaimer providing a detailed justification of why you are accepting of flaws in previous Trek adventures but not this one, because it's obviously a simple black-and-white thought process...
If the criticism of the new Trek is something that is specific to it and has no precedent in previous Trek, then no "disclaimer" is needed. But if people are going to pick at the new Trek for exactly (or nearly so) the type of shortcoming/flaw/error/etc. that was common enough in previous Trek, and yet is NOT picked on in prior cases, then yes, it is legitimate to ask why this case and not the earlier case(s)?

Case in point:

Complaint: In Abrams Trek, warp speed and travel time are inconsistent and way too fast--this is a serious flaw that takes me out of the film, etc.

Rebuttal: In TOS, warp speed and travel time are inconsistent and way too fast and that doesn't seem to bother anyone too much.

Complaint: Just because they did it before doesn't mean it's ok now.

Rebuttal: But why was it not a big deal then and is a big deal now? (surely a fair question if one is seizing on this element as worthy of particular criticism)

OR

Complaint: In Trek 2009, they destroyed Vulcan. This was far too drastic a change, in my view, to the Trek universe and I think the story would have been better served by not doing so. Here are 3 reasons why…

Rebuttal: I don't agree because… (but no reference to previous series).

The first complaint is typical of many (though not all) levelled at the Abrams films. It is only fair to include examples from prior Trek in rebuttals.

The second complaint is specific to Abrams films (Vulcan was never destroyed in previous Trek). Pointing to prior Trek in rebuttal is probably not going to be effective.

The issue is the ratio of the first type of complaint to the second. As there are many of the first type, one should not be surprised when prior Trek is called upon in rebuttal.
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