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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 12 2013, 12:11 AM   #76
C.E. Evans
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Sran wrote: View Post
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Or it was a way to give him a ship without giving him something too igh profile like a top-of-the-line vessel, after the stunt he pulled in III.
This works, too.

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Yeah, I've heard some fans propose something similar to this as well and it could be one of several reasons why Kirk was given another Constitution-class vessel.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:06 AM   #77
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Kirk showed them, didn't he, though ?
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Old June 12 2013, 02:07 AM   #78
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Kirk showed them, didn't he, though ?
How did he do that?

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Old June 12 2013, 03:15 AM   #79
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

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arch101 wrote: View Post
I had assumed that either Excelsior would be renamed Enterprise or that a second Excelsior class ship would be revealed as the new Enterprise (which is what they really should have done, IMHO) but I had no idea when this would happen.
I agree. The Excelsior was supposed to be a state-of-the-art design. The Constitution-class design was being phased out of Starfleet by 2286. Why offer Kirk command of an obsolete ship?

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What evidence is there that the Constitution-Class was being phased out at the time of TVH? Yes, the Excelsior was state of the art, but it was also an experimental prototype that was just getting ready for "trial runs" three months prior in TSFS, when it was sabotaged by Scotty. It would likely be years before the Excelsior class was put into full production and the Connies phased out of active service. So, I don't see it odd at all that new ships of that class were still being produced at this time.
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Old June 12 2013, 03:30 AM   #80
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

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What evidence is there that the Constitution-Class was being phased out at the time of TVH? Yes, the Excelsior was state of the art, but it was also an experimental prototype that was just getting ready for "trial runs" three months prior in TSFS, when it was sabotaged by Scotty. It would likely be years before the Excelsior class was put into full production and the Connies phased out of active service. So, I don't see it odd at all that new ships of that class were still being produced at this time.
Admiral Marrow's comments gave me that impression. Why decommission Enterprise if Constitution-class vessels are to continue being used? She was badly damaged but salvageable. Why not do another refit as Scotty suggested? Also consider that no other Constitution-class vessels are seen after the Enterprise-A is retired from service in spite of there being several Miranda-class ships that remain active well into the twenty fourth century. The only on-camera explanation that makes sense is that the remaining ships were retired. It may not have happened at the exact time I'm suggesting, but it's likely production of new ships stopped in the late twenty third century.

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Old June 12 2013, 03:38 AM   #81
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Plus I think the Excelsior Class was meant to replace the Constitution Class, especially since we see quite a few of them even in the TNG era, and some with high registry numbers, suggesting the Excelsior Class had a fairly long production life.
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Old June 12 2013, 03:45 AM   #82
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

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Plus I think the Excelsior Class was meant to replace the Constitution Class, especially since we see quite a few of them even in the TNG era, and some with high registry numbers, suggesting the Excelsior Class had a fairly long production life.
I remember reading somewhere that it was. Why else would the Enterprise-B be part of the class?

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Old June 12 2013, 03:54 AM   #83
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Sran wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
What evidence is there that the Constitution-Class was being phased out at the time of TVH? Yes, the Excelsior was state of the art, but it was also an experimental prototype that was just getting ready for "trial runs" three months prior in TSFS, when it was sabotaged by Scotty. It would likely be years before the Excelsior class was put into full production and the Connies phased out of active service. So, I don't see it odd at all that new ships of that class were still being produced at this time.
Admiral Marrow's comments gave me that impression. Why decommission Enterprise if Constitution-class vessels are to continue being used? She was badly damaged but salvageable. Why not do another refit as Scotty suggested?
That only speaks to ships of the Enterprise's age, not the entire class. The Admiral felt a refit would be wasted on a ship of that age. But there easily could have been many Constitution-Class ships that were of a younger vintage that were still serviceable.
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It may not have happened at the exact time I'm suggesting, but it's likely production of new ships stopped in the late twenty third century.
Sure, but since the 1701-A was launched in the mid 2280s, that leaves 15-20 years left before the beginning of the 24th century & nearly 80 years before the NextGen era, where we see an absence of the Constitution-Class. There is no reason to believe that Starfleet wasn't still constructing new Connies in the 2280s-90s while developing the new Excelsior-Class. Once the new class was in production (In say, the 2290s-2410s), no new Connies were built and as they were replaced with the newer Excelsior-Class as they were removed from service, a process that likely would have taken decades as the ships reached retirement age. Sure, we don't see any Connies after the 1701-A was retired, but we don't see much of anything between TUC and TNG.
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Old June 12 2013, 06:10 AM   #84
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

I've never understood why folks think the Enterprise was decommissioned at the end of TUC. The crew was, yes. But the ship? Kirk's final Captain's Log at the end confirms that the ship will go on.

Captain's Log, stardate 9529.1. This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command. This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the voyages we have begun, and journey to all the undiscovered countries, boldly going where no man... where no *one* has gone before.
Sure, he was really talking about the TNG crew and "this ship" was symbolic of the Enterprise's legacy rather than the physical vessel itself...but in-universe the line confirms that the ship would remain in service. It's just that nobody gave a damn about it since it wasn't Kirk's.
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Old June 12 2013, 10:31 AM   #85
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

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Kirk showed them, didn't he, though ?
How did he do that?
He stopped a war !
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Old June 12 2013, 10:34 AM   #86
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

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I've never understood why folks think the Enterprise was decommissioned at the end of TUC. The crew was, yes. But the ship? Kirk's final Captain's Log at the end confirms that the ship will go on.
And yet, in Generations, the 1701-B is commissioned. Same year as VI I think.
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Old June 12 2013, 04:46 PM   #87
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

We know the Constitution Class still had a few years left in their service lives, there was one in the aftermath scene at Wolf 359 in BOBW (a re-use of the wrecked hull from TSFS).

I suspect the A was just a last-through-the-gate refit. This could explain the problems in V, as if they incorporated every advance up to that date, the space-frame just found it difficult to cope?

That would mean that new-construction ships would be fine as they could be 'future-proofed', but the older refitted ones just could not be advanced any further, hence why a relatively new ship would be decommissioned.

As to a surprise, it was to me. I too was convinced they'd just get handed the Excelsior.
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Old June 12 2013, 06:24 PM   #88
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
I've never understood why folks think the Enterprise was decommissioned at the end of TUC. The crew was, yes. But the ship? Kirk's final Captain's Log at the end confirms that the ship will go on.
And yet, in Generations, the 1701-B is commissioned. Same year as VI I think.
Exactly. My impression at the end of TUC was that the crew was standing down (Being decommissioned is an odd way of saying this) and that a new crew would be taking over the Enterprise, which would have a good 10+ years of service left. I was a little miffed to find in GEN that the 1701-B was launched within a year of TUC (if you do the math), making that assumption impossible. In-Universe it would appear that Kirk thought the ship would remain in service, but was wrong.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:01 PM   #89
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
Sure, he was really talking about the TNG crew and "this ship" was symbolic of the Enterprise's legacy rather than the physical vessel itself...but in-universe the line confirms that the ship would remain in service. It's just that nobody gave a damn about it since it wasn't Kirk's.
Maybe the Enterprise-A's name was changed after her crew stepped down. The vessel stayed in service, but was given another name and number, sort of like changing license plates when a car changes ownership.

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Old June 12 2013, 11:42 PM   #90
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Re: Was the reveal of the Enterprise-A a big surprise?

^Indeed...if, as speculated by some, the name and number had been changed to suit Kirk's crew, perhaps the ship's old name and number were restored after that crew stepped down, to make way for the new Enterprise.

FWIW to the debate over the Constitution's longevity...the original intent was for Picard's earlier command, the Stargazer, to be a Constitution-class ship...the reason it was changed was the usual bit about not wanting to use the hero ship from the films elsewhere. They named the new design the "Constellation-class" so that the word could be easily dubbed over where the actors had been filmed called it a "Constitution".
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