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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 12 2013, 02:15 AM   #121
Sran
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Indeed...I don't think of Nemesis as having "plot holes" so much as just being stupid.
I prefer to think that Nemesis itself was a plot hole. How could anyone put together such a terrible movie?

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Old June 12 2013, 02:24 AM   #122
Galactic Alignment
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Belz... wrote: View Post
...unfortunately it was poorly executed on almost every level. It feels like an overly-long TNG episode. The battle at the end is pretty cool, but even it has problems.
An overly long TNG episode would have been far better than Nemesis! At least the former might not have so blatantly shat over everything the TNG series represented.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:37 AM   #123
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Sran wrote: View Post
I prefer to think that Nemesis itself was a plot hole.
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Old June 12 2013, 02:43 AM   #124
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

^I'll be here all week.

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Old June 12 2013, 01:41 PM   #125
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Sran wrote: View Post
^I'll be here all week.

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Old June 12 2013, 05:33 PM   #126
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Well Nemesis had a good premise, and good ideas, really.
I disagree. I don't even think it has that.

Here's my imaginary studio meeting where Logan pitches the story to Berman:

Berman: We'll need an A-story and a B-story. Hit me.

Logan: Okay, Data, right? Data... wait for it... Commander Data of the starship Enterprise... (dramatic pause) ...HAS A TWIN!

Berman: Um... okay, didn't we already do that on the TV show? Oh, well, never mind. Maybe that could be the B-story. Now how about a really cinematic A-story?

Logan: Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Okay. Here it is. Are you ready? Captain Picard... (dramatic pause) ...HAS A TWIN!
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Old June 12 2013, 09:18 PM   #127
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

If you put it like that, sure.

But the clone/twin angle was interesting in its implications, for me. I feel they spent too much time on that, and made the point moot too early in the movie. If Shinzon had been a better-imagined character, perhaps with implanted memories from Picard, they would've had a point.
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Old June 12 2013, 09:59 PM   #128
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Well Nemesis had a good premise, and good ideas, really.
I disagree. I don't even think it has that.

Here's my imaginary studio meeting where Logan pitches the story to Berman:

Berman: We'll need an A-story and a B-story. Hit me.

Logan: Okay, Data, right? Data... wait for it... Commander Data of the starship Enterprise... (dramatic pause) ...HAS A TWIN!

Berman: Um... okay, didn't we already do that on the TV show? Oh, well, never mind. Maybe that could be the B-story. Now how about a really cinematic A-story?

Logan: Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Okay. Here it is. Are you ready? Captain Picard... (dramatic pause) ...HAS A TWIN!
To be fair, they always used Data to parallel Picard's character arc.

Generations: Picard loses his family and has to deal with extreme pain and grief. Data experiences emotions for the first time and his emotion chip overloads. By seeing Data give up the battle against his new emotions, Picard realizes how he himself needs to win his own battle.

First Contact: Picard was kidnapped and raped by the Borg, and he could never have his vengeance. Data gets kidnapped, but unlike Picard, he is tempted to join the collective. Both share their weird love for the Borg Queen.

Insurrection doesn't really do it, Data's arc is used against everybody's arc. Everybody gets young again, but Data doesn't. Instead, he learns from a kid what it's like to BE young.

Nemesis has Picard and his evil clone, and Data and his mentally challenged twin brother. It's basically what they did in Generations. With the exception that this time Data gives advice on life to Picard. Because Data realizes the difference between him and B-4, and the difference between Picard and Shinzon. The life lesson is even delivered in the stellar cartography chamber, just like in Generations.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:55 PM   #129
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

I don't think that anything about Nemesis was particularly compelling even on paper. It was just a very shoddily-conceived attempt at a too-literal TWOK clone, when they'd done a better TNG answer to TWOK in First Contact...the movie that featured a menace that our crew had a history with, and that the captain had a personal stake in defeating...the movie that featured a twist on Khan's vengeful Ahab schtick by giving it to the hero instead of the villain.
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Old June 13 2013, 12:12 AM   #130
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

For all its flaws, I like Insurrection. Don't know why, really. Never thought too much about it. Maybe it's the 300 year old hottie.

If I have to choose (and I don't because all the movies are right here where I can run them anytime at the touch of a button), I'll watch TWOK, Voyage Home, TUC, INS, and ST09.

But I usually run them all in order.
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